Por-Vettes - Ok I'm a believer now
04-10-2012, 11:47 AM
#46
Administrator - "Tyson"
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
For a comparison, look at the 928 motor which is the same physical size of a 502 Chevy big block. Aluminum or not, that is a lot of material.
Add to that an overhead valve arrangement which adds even more weight.
04-10-2012, 06:48 PM
#47
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
btw, a complete LS1 being pulled from a wreck to be shipped,
including the serpentine, ac, fuel rails and ecm weighs in at just about 470 pounds.
most guys doing their swaps don't run ac, so there's some weight savings right there.....
the 944 S2 crank is possibly the heaviest 4 cylinder crank on earth, weighing in at just about 60 pounds !!
even more than the (equal weight) of corn syrup i consume each year.
including the serpentine, ac, fuel rails and ecm weighs in at just about 470 pounds.
most guys doing their swaps don't run ac, so there's some weight savings right there.....
the 944 S2 crank is possibly the heaviest 4 cylinder crank on earth, weighing in at just about 60 pounds !!
even more than the (equal weight) of corn syrup i consume each year.
04-10-2012, 07:16 PM
#48
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Its a matter of technologically advanced porsche vs mobile ancient technology parts bin.
There are a lot of chasis that LS compliments nice, but in porsche it is just blasphemy.
Porsche is the most dominant name in car racing history and not one of victories was won with GM engine. Strange. They would probably won even more if they just used good ol push rod v8 design from 1920.
This is a nice car for LS engine:
There are a lot of chasis that LS compliments nice, but in porsche it is just blasphemy.
Porsche is the most dominant name in car racing history and not one of victories was won with GM engine. Strange. They would probably won even more if they just used good ol push rod v8 design from 1920.
This is a nice car for LS engine:
04-10-2012, 07:26 PM
#49
Former Vendor
The math is simple. Little car plus big engine = high performance. The trick is putting the big engine in without spoiling the little car.
We've teamed up with the experts at V8 Roadsters to offer a kit that mates the amazing GM Gen III/Gen IV - or "LS" - family of engines to a 1990-05 Miata. The engine is a beauty that ranges in size from 5.3 to 6.3 liters and makes a minimum of 300 hp and 300 ft-lbs with a wide range of upgrades available. We mate it to a strong T56 6-speed transmission that offers a nice tight gate and an extremely relaxed cruising gear. The rear end is an aluminum-bodied limited slip unit from the Cadillac CTS, with a custom driveshaft, new rear hubs and high-strength axles. Engine management is handled by the stock GM unit, which is easily reprogrammed and can return OBD-II codes.
To mount the engine, we have a fabricated tubular subframe that's 10 lbs lighter than stock. The transmission is supported by a brace that also reinforces the frame rails for extra rigidity. The engine is set back as far as possible to optimize the weight distribution, and some modifications are required to the engine bay and transmission tunnel. The Miata power steering is retained and you can use A/C and the front sway bar.
Overall, the car gains less than 200 lbs with 1/3 of that on the rear wheels. In other words, the car does not become a nose-heavy beast. To put things in perspective, one of our SuperFour Challenge turbo Miatas came in at almost exactly the same weight and distribution. From the outside, the car looks completely stock. The ground clearance is unchanged and nothing needs to be altered on the body. As long as the engine is off, it's a great sleeper. But once you fire it up, there's no mistaking what's underhood.
Does it handle? Well, the first time we took one autocrossing, we set FTD with it - by a margin of nearly 4 seconds. We've destroyed our own lap records around our local track, outrunning purpose-built race Miatas with a street-oriented V8 Miata. Yeah, it handles.
04-10-2012, 07:49 PM
#50
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
@ 388 cubic inches...
how 'bout being able to gently let out the clutch slowly w/out touching the gas and not stall the car?
that would be a hoot !
04-10-2012, 07:54 PM
#51
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 487
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My swap is coming along, hoping to fire the engine up in the new few weeks. You really have to see it to believe the amount of extra space that opens up with the LS1 in there. Overall it's just a much easier engine to work on - you don't have to remove 10 things to get to the part you're trying to replace like on the porsche engine.
04-10-2012, 08:07 PM
#52
Team Owner
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: one thousand, five hundred miles north of Ft. Lauderdale for the summer.
Posts: 28,705
Received 212 Likes
on
153 Posts
fixed it for you, just in case you ever decide to come over to the right side...
effing awesome !!
frankly i'm shocked by the number of new swap projects that i'm hearing about the past few days.
what a difference a couple of years makes.
04-10-2012, 09:32 PM
#54
Nordschleife Master
My LS1 with alternator and full clutch assembly was 437. I do not run a power steering pump and had not yet put oil in the system.
04-10-2012, 10:02 PM
#56
Nordschleife Master
04-10-2012, 10:28 PM
#57
Its a matter of technologically advanced porsche vs mobile ancient technology parts bin.
There are a lot of chasis that LS compliments nice, but in porsche it is just blasphemy.
Porsche is the most dominant name in car racing history and not one of victories was won with GM engine. Strange. They would probably won even more if they just used good ol push rod v8 design from 1920.
There are a lot of chasis that LS compliments nice, but in porsche it is just blasphemy.
Porsche is the most dominant name in car racing history and not one of victories was won with GM engine. Strange. They would probably won even more if they just used good ol push rod v8 design from 1920.
(Read The 911 Story for proof)
The Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines have been in production in a very similar form since the thirties. The O-145 started in 1938.
The Chevy small block was in production cars 1955-2003 and is still made as a replacement part.
The M28 and M44 Porsche motors were produced 1977-1995, a total of 18 years. By the time production ceased they were outdated, overstreched, uneconomical to produce, and overly complex.
Good things stand the test of time.
04-11-2012, 11:48 PM
#58
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boise, Idaho
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Considering the same swap for my 87na. I have a couple of questions.
1. Brakes. How do you deal with a lack of vacuum booster on the brake system? What is the fix?
2. AC. This will be a street driven car and will not do without PS and AC. By going with the LS1, will the ac and ps pumps fit and plumb up?
Thanks for the good information.
1. Brakes. How do you deal with a lack of vacuum booster on the brake system? What is the fix?
2. AC. This will be a street driven car and will not do without PS and AC. By going with the LS1, will the ac and ps pumps fit and plumb up?
Thanks for the good information.
04-12-2012, 12:04 AM
#59
Nordschleife Master
1) The options are manual brakes, hydroboost, an electric brake booster or using individual master cylinders for the front / rear
2) A/C can be retained, basically you use the GM compressor mated to the rest of the Porsche system
PS works aswell, the stock GM pump can be used if doing it on the cheap.
2) A/C can be retained, basically you use the GM compressor mated to the rest of the Porsche system
PS works aswell, the stock GM pump can be used if doing it on the cheap.
04-12-2012, 09:18 AM
#60
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The 911 engine is a direct evoloution from the VW beetle engine. Produced 1936-present
(Read The 911 Story for proof)
The Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines have been in production in a very similar form since the thirties. The O-145 started in 1938.
The Chevy small block was in production cars 1955-2003 and is still made as a replacement part.
The M28 and M44 Porsche motors were produced 1977-1995, a total of 18 years. By the time production ceased they were outdated, overstreched, uneconomical to produce, and overly complex.
Good things stand the test of time.
(Read The 911 Story for proof)
The Lycoming and Continental aircraft engines have been in production in a very similar form since the thirties. The O-145 started in 1938.
The Chevy small block was in production cars 1955-2003 and is still made as a replacement part.
The M28 and M44 Porsche motors were produced 1977-1995, a total of 18 years. By the time production ceased they were outdated, overstreched, uneconomical to produce, and overly complex.
Good things stand the test of time.
So the best solution is to jerk out the stupid morbid engine and slap in a nice modern digital timepiece that never misses.. What a very exciting and accurate hybrid that would be. If the first one wouldn't be so expensive, Id made one and give it to Ourundandina for birthday.
