How to get more power out of NA, looking for 400hp ++
04-19-2011, 01:17 PM
#31
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Austin TX
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Henk - and everyone else in this thread -
I didn't have the coin you did for my engine build, but do not let people on this forum criticize you for hunting for N/A power. I suspect these twin-cam engines respond exceptionally well to modification. On this forum this is some kind of conspiracy to deny that - so that everyone will get a turbo or a V8?
I built up a 2.5 liter S engine with the following,
No balance shafts,
No A/C or power steering
Crank and Rods from an 83 944 (RARST forged)
Lightened steel flywheel balanced to the crankshaft
Cleaned up the castings in the intake / exhaust ports with a dremel
Decked head to the limit to bring flat / remove corrosion but used stock headgasket for increased compression
Solid lifters on the hydraulic cams with the cams retarded 2 degrees (The solid lifters changed my intake duration to that of an S2 cam but with different timing)
TurboS Oil pan/ crank scraper
S2 intake
Completely removed emissions on the intake
Bored out 8V N/A throttle body done by me to 60mm
Cone filter
Deleted cat - only stock muffler in the rear
This car is in a lightweight chassis with a 924S transmission with LSD. It pulls MUCH harder through 1st 2nd and 3rd. These mods have changed the engine so dramatically that the computer literally no longer has the correct ignition and fuel tables for it to run correctly. Even though it pulls harder, it still runs quite poor. Has ignition ping, and to kill it I have to run rich (10:1 at WOT!!!) to keep it drivable right now. What I'm saying is it still pulls harder than the original S even with this handicap and with a tune I fully expect to clear out another 15-20hp up top. Stock engine was 188 - I am most certainly over 200 with the handicapped tune.
Dont be fooled - there's definitely power to be had in these little engines - even on a budget like I was!!
I didn't have the coin you did for my engine build, but do not let people on this forum criticize you for hunting for N/A power. I suspect these twin-cam engines respond exceptionally well to modification. On this forum this is some kind of conspiracy to deny that - so that everyone will get a turbo or a V8?
I built up a 2.5 liter S engine with the following,
No balance shafts,
No A/C or power steering
Crank and Rods from an 83 944 (RARST forged)
Lightened steel flywheel balanced to the crankshaft
Cleaned up the castings in the intake / exhaust ports with a dremel
Decked head to the limit to bring flat / remove corrosion but used stock headgasket for increased compression
Solid lifters on the hydraulic cams with the cams retarded 2 degrees (The solid lifters changed my intake duration to that of an S2 cam but with different timing)
TurboS Oil pan/ crank scraper
S2 intake
Completely removed emissions on the intake
Bored out 8V N/A throttle body done by me to 60mm
Cone filter
Deleted cat - only stock muffler in the rear
This car is in a lightweight chassis with a 924S transmission with LSD. It pulls MUCH harder through 1st 2nd and 3rd. These mods have changed the engine so dramatically that the computer literally no longer has the correct ignition and fuel tables for it to run correctly. Even though it pulls harder, it still runs quite poor. Has ignition ping, and to kill it I have to run rich (10:1 at WOT!!!) to keep it drivable right now. What I'm saying is it still pulls harder than the original S even with this handicap and with a tune I fully expect to clear out another 15-20hp up top. Stock engine was 188 - I am most certainly over 200 with the handicapped tune.
Dont be fooled - there's definitely power to be had in these little engines - even on a budget like I was!!
Last edited by pjburges; 04-19-2011 at 01:33 PM.
04-19-2011, 01:21 PM
#32
Pro
Thread Starter
Michael might chip in....
Henk
04-19-2011, 01:23 PM
#33
Pro
Thread Starter
Henk - and everyone else in this thread -
I didn't have the coin you did for my engine build, but do not let people on this forum criticize you for hunting for N/A power. I suspect these twin-cam engines respond exceptionally well to modification. On this forum this is some kind of conspiracy to deny that - so that everyone will get a turbo or a V8?
I built up a 2.5 liter S engine with the following,
No balance shafts,
No A/C or power steering
Crank and Rods from an 83 944 (RARST forged)
Lightened steel flywheel balanced to the crankshaft
Cleaned up the castings in the intake / exhaust ports with a dremel
Decked head to the limit to bring flat / remove corrosion but used stock headgasket for increased compression
Solid lifters on the hydraulic cams with the cams retarded 2 degrees (The solid lifters changed my intake duration to that of an S2 cam but with different timing)
S2 intake
Completely removed emissions on the intake
Bored out 8V N/A throttle body done by me to 60mm
Cone filter
Deleted cat - only stock muffler in the rear
This car is in a lightweight chassis with a 924S transmission with LSD. It pulls MUCH harder through 1st 2nd and 3rd. These mods have changed the engine so dramatically that the computer literally no longer has the correct ignition and fuel tables for it to run correctly. Even though it pulls harder, it still runs quite poor. Has ignition ping, and to kill it I have to run rich (10:1 at WOT!!!) to keep it drivable right now. What I'm saying is it still pulls harder than the original S even with this handicap and with a tune I fully expect to clear out another 15-20hp up top. Stock engine was 188 - I am most certainly over 200 with the handicapped tune.
Dont be fooled - there's definitely power to be had in these little engines - even on a budget like I was!!
I didn't have the coin you did for my engine build, but do not let people on this forum criticize you for hunting for N/A power. I suspect these twin-cam engines respond exceptionally well to modification. On this forum this is some kind of conspiracy to deny that - so that everyone will get a turbo or a V8?
I built up a 2.5 liter S engine with the following,
No balance shafts,
No A/C or power steering
Crank and Rods from an 83 944 (RARST forged)
Lightened steel flywheel balanced to the crankshaft
Cleaned up the castings in the intake / exhaust ports with a dremel
Decked head to the limit to bring flat / remove corrosion but used stock headgasket for increased compression
Solid lifters on the hydraulic cams with the cams retarded 2 degrees (The solid lifters changed my intake duration to that of an S2 cam but with different timing)
S2 intake
Completely removed emissions on the intake
Bored out 8V N/A throttle body done by me to 60mm
Cone filter
Deleted cat - only stock muffler in the rear
This car is in a lightweight chassis with a 924S transmission with LSD. It pulls MUCH harder through 1st 2nd and 3rd. These mods have changed the engine so dramatically that the computer literally no longer has the correct ignition and fuel tables for it to run correctly. Even though it pulls harder, it still runs quite poor. Has ignition ping, and to kill it I have to run rich (10:1 at WOT!!!) to keep it drivable right now. What I'm saying is it still pulls harder than the original S even with this handicap and with a tune I fully expect to clear out another 15-20hp up top. Stock engine was 188 - I am most certainly over 200 with the handicapped tune.
Dont be fooled - there's definitely power to be had in these little engines - even on a budget like I was!!
04-19-2011, 03:13 PM
#34
Rennlist Member
Henk - and everyone else in this thread -
I didn't have the coin you did for my engine build, but do not let people on this forum criticize you for hunting for N/A power. I suspect these twin-cam engines respond exceptionally well to modification. On this forum this is some kind of conspiracy to deny that - so that everyone will get a turbo or a V8?
I built up a 2.5 liter S engine with the following,
No balance shafts,
No A/C or power steering
Crank and Rods from an 83 944 (RARST forged)
Lightened steel flywheel balanced to the crankshaft
Cleaned up the castings in the intake / exhaust ports with a dremel
Decked head to the limit to bring flat / remove corrosion but used stock headgasket for increased compression
Solid lifters on the hydraulic cams with the cams retarded 2 degrees (The solid lifters changed my intake duration to that of an S2 cam but with different timing)
TurboS Oil pan/ crank scraper
S2 intake
Completely removed emissions on the intake
Bored out 8V N/A throttle body done by me to 60mm
Cone filter
Deleted cat - only stock muffler in the rear
This car is in a lightweight chassis with a 924S transmission with LSD. It pulls MUCH harder through 1st 2nd and 3rd. These mods have changed the engine so dramatically that the computer literally no longer has the correct ignition and fuel tables for it to run correctly. Even though it pulls harder, it still runs quite poor. Has ignition ping, and to kill it I have to run rich (10:1 at WOT!!!) to keep it drivable right now. What I'm saying is it still pulls harder than the original S even with this handicap and with a tune I fully expect to clear out another 15-20hp up top. Stock engine was 188 - I am most certainly over 200 with the handicapped tune.
Dont be fooled - there's definitely power to be had in these little engines - even on a budget like I was!!
I didn't have the coin you did for my engine build, but do not let people on this forum criticize you for hunting for N/A power. I suspect these twin-cam engines respond exceptionally well to modification. On this forum this is some kind of conspiracy to deny that - so that everyone will get a turbo or a V8?
I built up a 2.5 liter S engine with the following,
No balance shafts,
No A/C or power steering
Crank and Rods from an 83 944 (RARST forged)
Lightened steel flywheel balanced to the crankshaft
Cleaned up the castings in the intake / exhaust ports with a dremel
Decked head to the limit to bring flat / remove corrosion but used stock headgasket for increased compression
Solid lifters on the hydraulic cams with the cams retarded 2 degrees (The solid lifters changed my intake duration to that of an S2 cam but with different timing)
TurboS Oil pan/ crank scraper
S2 intake
Completely removed emissions on the intake
Bored out 8V N/A throttle body done by me to 60mm
Cone filter
Deleted cat - only stock muffler in the rear
This car is in a lightweight chassis with a 924S transmission with LSD. It pulls MUCH harder through 1st 2nd and 3rd. These mods have changed the engine so dramatically that the computer literally no longer has the correct ignition and fuel tables for it to run correctly. Even though it pulls harder, it still runs quite poor. Has ignition ping, and to kill it I have to run rich (10:1 at WOT!!!) to keep it drivable right now. What I'm saying is it still pulls harder than the original S even with this handicap and with a tune I fully expect to clear out another 15-20hp up top. Stock engine was 188 - I am most certainly over 200 with the handicapped tune.
Dont be fooled - there's definitely power to be had in these little engines - even on a budget like I was!!
04-20-2011, 05:25 AM
#35
Pro
Thread Starter
Just to remind some of the LS followers, what we're trying to build is a PORSCHE race car, that's what i want for its classification. Engine swaps to other brands are out of the question. Also this tread wasn't intended to show the economics of maximizing a Porsche engine. The idea is to show that it can be done and that it can deliver decent numbers. If you really want.
Henk
Henk
04-20-2011, 06:24 AM
#36
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I was thinking about putting truck diesel in 944. Just to brag with torque curve
04-20-2011, 06:29 AM
#37
Nordschleife Master
04-20-2011, 09:10 AM
#39
Rennlist Member
04-21-2011, 04:06 AM
#41
Pro
Thread Starter
H
04-21-2011, 06:07 AM
#42
Rennlist Member
Nobody is discouraging modding an NA motor, all we're saying is that it's much cheaper to reach that target HP by just converting to an LS platform rather than try to build up the NA motor. 333pg333 got it right, there's very few reasons to build a high HP 4 cylinder instead of converting to an LS platform. Unless you're racing and thus have engine requirements, or just want the 4 cylinder, both of which it seems the OP falls under. So best of luck to him, and I hope this thread gets updated with some nice engine shots.
?
?
Having said that, the V8 Corvettes, R35s, BMWs are killing them on the racetrack so what do I know.
I can't wait to see Henk's car on the track and listen to that thing spin up to 8500rpm....because that's where it will need to be to even have a hope of 400bhp. Nevertheless, it will be a thing of beauty and sound plus incredibly fast on the track. I would back this car against the fastest V8 Hybrid going around...mine too.
Look forward to it Henk!!
Last edited by 333pg333; 04-21-2011 at 04:44 PM.
04-21-2011, 06:46 AM
#43
Henk - roger that, will be awesome to see as it progresses. I'm keen to see if the inlet port needs to open much to get to these power levels. Theoretically the exhaust is a complicated question. For a higher RPM engine my thought is that the port shouldn't be opened up too much - trying to create a De Laval nozzle for the supersonic gas exiting the exhaust to maximise gas velocity and minimise reversion on overlap.
Full respect to your effort - I really enjoyed your inital build thread, hope to copy your cage :P
Full respect to your effort - I really enjoyed your inital build thread, hope to copy your cage :P
04-21-2011, 07:27 AM
#44
Pro
Thread Starter
Henk - roger that, will be awesome to see as it progresses. I'm keen to see if the inlet port needs to open much to get to these power levels. Theoretically the exhaust is a complicated question. For a higher RPM engine my thought is that the port shouldn't be opened up too much - trying to create a De Laval nozzle for the supersonic gas exiting the exhaust to maximise gas velocity and minimise reversion on overlap.
Full respect to your effort - I really enjoyed your inital build thread, hope to copy your cage :P
Full respect to your effort - I really enjoyed your inital build thread, hope to copy your cage :P
did you read the intake article (and flow) from the link on the intake we're using?
http://www.raetech.com/Engine/Fuel_I...evelopment.php
