Hollywood D

lmao at that site. There are some angry people on there.

odurandina

there's lots of angry P-car owners. i really thought this post was interesting.....



all i found up there was all the 911/997 horror stories.....

okay, let's see if i have this straight: we're not supposed to compare a 30~40 thousand dollar car (the 9-4-4)'s four cylinder engine to anything else from that era, like say, an Audi 90 or Toyota Corolla.... and we're supposed to feel REALLY GOOD because all the water-cooled 911, Boxster and Cayman engines are even worse: we already know this to be true....




i have a friend who's pulled 12 Cayman engines and too many 996 and Boxster engines even to mention, most, always having low miles, because in New England you can't even drive the cars but about 7 months out of the year... ....and there's also my own horror: wasting about $21 k on my 928 a few years ago. if anything, i'm beginning to think the 968 engine and the old air-cooled 911 engines are the only thing Porsche produced in the last 40 years that wasn't crap.




http://www.total911.com/news/466/

https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...g-engines.html


taken as a whole, calling Porsches reliable is like calling a high priced call girl the perfect "cure-all" when you face imminent foreclosure...

https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topi...-say-this.html

https://rennlist.com/forums/off-topi...-warranty.html






edit: it's 12 Cayman engines to date.
.

User 52121

Just to be sure the point I was trying to make with my posts on the matter is clear:

I don't think the 944 is inherently "unreliable", because it's a 944, because of it's build quality, engineering, etc. I think that what makes a 944 generally unreliable by today's standards simply has to do with the car's AGE. 20+ year old cars of ANY brand are bound to start having random issues. 20+ year old sports cars that may have led a harder life than your average commuter car are bound to have random issues.

I bought a very good, well maintained example, and so far, actual part *failures* I've had are minimal. (I have replaced a ton of parts while chasing after problems, that turned out not to be the cause of the problem and were thus unnecessary.) Actual part failures are below:

- Replaced reference sensors due to their plastic connectors literally crumbling (age)
- Replaced original plastic vacuum lines with silicone due to cracks and crumbling (age)
- Replaced AFM due to a sticky "barn door" (@ 135k miles)
- Replaced bypass valve (torn internal rubber diaphragm - age)
- Replaced turbo output hose due to pinhole leak (age)
- Rebuilt brake calipers due to creaking/sticking pistons (age)
- Replaced battery (age)
- Installed missing "cooling tube" for alternator (prior owner's fault for not reinstalling)
- Cleaned up some ground wire connections (prior owner's fault)
- Rear main seal (in progress, one of the few "common" issues it seems with these cars and Porsches in general)

Everything else I've done was either ultimately not necessary (as it didn't solve the problem I was trying to fix), fun/upgrade parts (LSD install, MBC, etc.) or was regular maintenance (oil changes, timing belt, plugs/wires, etc.)

IMO - not too shabby for a car with 140k+ miles on it and sees regular hard driving (I autocross it, previous owner did a lot of track driving with it.) Almost all the failures I've had were due to age!

pettybird

I don't know why you romance your 968 so much as it fails in exactly the same places as its predecessors. chain pads, tensioners, cam gears, rod bearings, belts, etc.

I also don't think you've done much checking into 911 history. MFI issues make 944 costs look like drops in a lake. Intermediate shaft failures. 2.7l head studs pulling out of cases at 25k miles. mag case deformation/misalignment. chain ramp failures. Head studs snapping. pre-3.2 tensioner failures. 2.7 and 3.2l valve guides. CIS tuning nightmares. 964 head gaskets, or lack thereof. oil leaks...everywhere. piston slap on 993's. distributor drive belt failures on 964/993. and OH-MY-GOD rebuild costs.

I love, love, love air cooled 911's, but they're hardly Hondas, either.

Mom's SC needs work as it's on old car which hasn't seen enough care since new. I want her in something newer, but neither one of us can seem to pull the trigger and actually move past the car. There's so much charisma...so much history...it just takes a while to justify its needs. I'll end up pulling the motor, sending out the heads, resealing everything, and have my uncle go through the trans synchros and motor reassembly. New CIS pieces, new hoses and it should be good to go.

...and, doing the work myself, I'll spend more than I paid for my 951. It IS a proper Porsche, though!

odurandina

i got the same refresh over the phone with Van today.

there are more good 968 engines for sale than there are good 968s.

the engines outlast the cars.

pettybird

They have value! No one sends a 968 to the junkyard with even a core engine...the crank alone is worth more than three 944 NA motors.

I know dismantlers who simply send NA cars to the 'yard with the engines in them if they're not *perfect*--they're not worth having around!

metrocpa1

I have a '84 with 130k miles. Bought it for $3k, didn't get much service history. I immediately changed belts, clutch, water pump - just in case. I drive it daily (including Chicago winters + salt) and get around 27 mpg. The car still amazes me in terms of handling and build quality. Close the door on the 944 and compare the feel to another 25 year old car, or a new one for that matter. The car just feels solid. When you've got your 944 issues fixed, the car begins to feel bulletproof...but we all know they need proper upkeep from time to time. Say it costs me $1,200/year in maintenance over that of a new or newer car...I can live with that considering the feeling I get everytime I drive it. Yes, no matter what I do to "fix it up", it'll always be worth $3k. I don't care, I love it.

odurandina

best first post ever ?

odurandina

thought i'd bump this for the newbies.

Mike C.

I think Jim got it right on. If you factor out age and mileage, these cars are certainly no worse in terms of reliability compared to other cars in the class. Having dabbled in old British sports cars, I know the build quality of 944 was far and away superior to them. From what I've seen of Corvettes from the era I believe that is also true. And structurally the 944 is ahead of its class. Even though I sold mine, I keep coming back here just to see Odurandina's avatars...

mclaudio

Interesting. I think 944 ownership turnover will slow down when the owners are ones that bought the car because it is the car they ultimately like and not the car they bought as a stepping stone to another car. Eventually, this happens to every car albeit at varying levels. With the 944, the size of such market is smaller than the 911, but larger than the 928. I would bet that the 944 cycle will be similar to the 914's.

I personally bought my 944 after having over a dozen of Porsches including early 911s, water-cooled 911s and 930s. In elementary school, the 930 was my dream car; but in high school, I had a 944 ad/poster in my school bag. The 944 represented a seemingly attainable goal for me at that time.

As it turns out, I favor the 944's handling balance much more over the 911 (especially the 930) handling; hence for racing, I'd much rather keep my 944. Having said this, if the opportunity arises, I would be more than happy to step up to other Porsche mid-engine race cars such as 550RSK/906/910 or even 914GT.

BeerBurner

This is pretty much what I tell people who consider buying a 944. I don't think they are inherently unreliable but they are getting really old and old cars do break. If you can find one that hasn't suffered from deferred maintenance and are willing to maintain the cars then they can be rewarding. The problem is that unless you turn your own wrenches the repairs get really expensive when you bring them in to the shop for everything.

My 944 has been a solid success story. I bought it with a thick stack of records but I still had to do some significant stuff early on. Since then, things got cheaper and most of my expenses were the result of not having the testicular fortitude to tackle the timing belt and I had a few repairs that involved removing that.

Once I was willing to dive in to that my repair costs dropped sharply. Lately, I'll have 2-3 years of <$100 in annual repairs with one year that gets pretty expensive, followed by another 2-3 years of almost nothing. If I had to pay someone to do this, it would be a much different story... but since I'll dive in to it myself it's no big thing.

Either way, it's still cheaper than a car payment.

BB.

87 944 C

ok. i don't have a 944 at this point(well i do, but parts only). i have a 1992 Dodge Stealth Turbo. it's rare with less than 10,000 ever produced(91-96). cost to purchase one on average 8k. cost of a 60k tune up...1k. however there is no such thing as a properly maintained one. service records...good luck. mine: i bought in 06 for 8700, in the last 2yrs(not inluding the work being done now) just to keep the car running, 9k....the work now is around 2k. so i've spent 20k on this car. it's to a point that i want a divorce...but it needs a repaint, add another 3k...23k. if i'm lucky i'll get 10k out of it b/c of low miles and recent history of maintenance.

most cars that are between 20-30yrs old are not worth the amount you need to keep them on the road. once past 30yrs old, they become rare and sometimes valuable(NADA just upped the value of my car to 18k). it comes to your true passion for the vehicle...btw my stealth is testing my passion. great car and i challenge someone to find a car as powerful and usable for 8k. 300hp, awd(snow doesn't stop me), aws, leather, power mirrors, windows, seats, a hatch that can fit luggage. honostly the only thing i've ever come up with, a 944 turbo...which around me will get stuck in snow. though my 8v did well.

odurandina

..............

Dino V

I will chime in also.
As a kid I have always wanted a 944 S2 Cabrio. First I decided to go with new Porsches to avoid the headache of repairs/etc that is normally affiliated with the older ones. Well, I would search for 944 cabrio, but could never find a local one for sale. After two years of searching I finally found one. It can be frustrating at times because it seems like all the problems tag team you at once, but once it is back on the road, I think about how much it is worth all the headaches lol. I am currently at the point of where I over maintain and replace old parts just so I can try and avoid or minimize down time.

Having a Triumph also, has also kept me alert at all times LOL. As long as you maintain them and don't defer things, it should keep you on the road. At the end of the day it is a hobby car, so it will require extra money to keep running properly. And the most important thing is to keep driving them. I try to drive mine every chance I get whenever it is dry and nice out.