odurandina

for the new guys just getting started with their 944s....


i have often wondered about high turnover of members of this car forum... i don't know.... maybe we could say the same for any make and model of car, since there are so many options for ownership out there.

anyway, owners come and go. some stay around for a long time and then suddenly depart.... once i asked myself, "is it because the cars are crap, or just that they pose formidable challenges to the owners?" i believe the cars are pretty amazing. there is some special maintenance that we always have to keep up with... but overall, i have come to appreciate the 944s and 968s as being pretty solid....

when people announce they're moving on from the "944," for some reason it makes me a little bit sad — especially, if i had enjoyed reading their posts over a period of time.... sure, some people keep nice examples in good running condition only to have accidents along the way, and once out of their daily cars, they decide the time isn't right to take on another 944 project, but there are others that at some point or another, just "get out."

i think there are a few people who experience "924/944/968" ownership for only a short time for lack of choosing the right car.... maybe they never had a clear idea of what they really wanted to do, or in some cases, didn't really understanding what they were getting into... i included an interesting article i found that addresses some of these points, why some projects "look" better than others, and why some cars should just be avoided.

i see projects getting started often here, and while not wishing to discourage new owners, i think these cars should be treated with extreme skepticism before new owners dive in.... if people are serious about owning a 944, they might actually consider taking the first cars they acquire and stripping them right down to the bones for parts, as both a learning experience and in preparation for long-term ownership when a better example becomes available. i would like to hear your thoughts.


for the guys who haven't seen this, here's one that came out pretty good.

https://rennlist.com/forums/944-turb...s-running.html


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-GjR...layer_embedded

odurandina

Choosing The Right Car Restoration Project

http://restorecarsfast.com/choosingcar/



1. Finding the Right Car for You...

When you think that you are absolutely ready for a car restoration project, as in you are 100% sure and willing to devout your time, effort and money into it, then its time to look for that perfect car for you to restore. First timers in car restorations might want to pay more attention to this part.

a. In car restoration, it is good to note what MODEL or MAKE of the car you want to restore. If possible, list the TOP FIVE car models you want to own yourself. This list will help you in determining your car for your restoration project.

b. Once you have your car wish list, it will be easy to gather information about the cars. Do not be afraid to do research about your cars in every place and media that you can.

c. With the gathered information, you and your team, if you have one, have to analyze and understand and chart all the advantages and disadvantages of each car in your list. This will provide you with a very thorough and detailed information sheet of each car that you can be proud of. And most of all, you are now a few steps away from picking your car!


2. Look for Solid, Not Scrap....

Almost all first time car restorers are attracted to famous car brands and models and impulsively buy those old cars, not realizing they are biting off more than they can chew. You might say, what is the point of restoring old cars when they are not from some famous brand? What is the point of car restoration when the car model has thousands and thousands running around town? Or what if the car make that has been known for faulty conditions sand to being unreliable and unsuitable time and time again? Oh yeah, an old unknown car brand is not worth it.

Not saying, first timers, should not jump at a chance to restore an old recognized car. My gripe was about how impulsive and utterly wasteful it would be to buy an old dilapidated car without even inspecting what condition it is in. Sure, you’ll roll your eyes and say, ‘isn’t that the point of car restoration’? Fixing an old dilapidated yet famous car into its glorified restored version? Again, stop jumping ahead. Yes, you need an old rundown car for restoration. But please, think properly and logically before you purchase any old car.


a. Car Evaluation

Take your time with the car. Inspect. Scrutinize. Take down notes while you’re at it. If you can, take pictures of every part of the car, even underneath the car. Don’t forget to check and even double check the important parts, like the engine, etc. Make sure you use a strong, bright flashlight to look into tight areas within the trunk and engine compartments and underneath the car too. You can make use of a weak flexible magnet in locating the car’s body filler, the structural skeleton of the car. Check the floor if is still solid, pull up the rugs if you can or slide the car seats to look under them. You can also knock on the floor, check for hollowness. Better yet, lift up the car or bring the car to a car shop with a lift, put in the air for a more thorough inspection.

You have to also consider the wear and tear a car can be subjected to. From climate changes to rust, to dents by accidents, a lot of factors will affect the car’s worthiness for restoration.


b. Seek a Professional *(Rennlist people)....

After your personal evaluation, seek the help of a car professional. Either you ask your local car mechanic, a fellow car enthusiast, a car collector or a professional car restorer to conduct an independent car evaluation from your own personal evaluation. Their inspection notes will give you an in-depth analysis of the car and other necessary information that you might have missed during your own evaluation, especially when it comes to original car parts, matching numbers on the engine, body, frame and transmission and such.

Compare your notes about the car. Analyze their notes. Take time to inquire them about their notes. If you don’t understand some of the points they jotted down, ask them to explain and expound on them. Ask the professionals when it comes to authenticity of the car. Inquire about the Vehicle Identification Number and the other manufacturing numbers stamped on the car and car parts.

Try to gauge their reactions if the car is as good as gold. Solicit their advices if the car is worth the restoration, if it is plausible to restore it. Think that you’re now informed enough to choose the right car for you? Think again.


the whole is the sum of many parts...

After you have finished with the car evaluation and rightfully so, its time to deal with the car parts. You have to remember, since this is a car restoration project, finding real, authentic and original car parts will be a difficult and tedious process, especially if the car is a classic or antique or vintage class that only a few hundred or thousand were produced during that certain period of time. Some of these parts are very hard to find, mostly expensive and most of the time, you will have to wait for a long time to acquire them.

BlackOp

I can say.....after 3 years + that I dont think I would buy another 944 unless it was pristine/restored. It seems every month it's something new. Would probably go M3 if the car was totaled...I love my car but it's more like the hot, spoiled girlfriend type of relationship....always looking over my shoulder and knowing it's too late to get out.

JohnKoaWood

LOL.. this is a funny concept..

Turnover is a result of the price of purchase not being in keeping with the cost of ownership..

I would liken the 944 more to a crazy hot chick with VD.. you know you want her, and only have to buy her a drink.. but left unchecked will destroy you because of that drink..

I bought my 944 out of desire.. a long felt desire, and learned the car inside and out.. and while the 944 was parked with a broken waterpump, I bought my 951... many many times the cost of purchase has been spent on both cars.. and neither is running at the moment...

BOTH will return to the road, better than they ever were, and I plan to have one or both in my garage for a very long time.. I am a huge fan of these cars, and have always been..

But there is a reason FAN is the base of FANATIC...

That having been said.. my N/A might be on the chopping block for a move into a 996 in the near future.. I will see how she does once she is back together...

Porsche16V944

"Lights on, Jackpot, There she is!"

EDIT:
I've owned my 944S since July 4th/10.... NEVER have i had it on the road yet. I bought the car with no service records (because i didnt know any better) but after a fellow rennlist member got in touch with me, i learned a bit more about it's history. 10 days into owning it, i found out i need camshafts, probably due to a faulty cam tensioner pads breaking off at one point because some of the cam teeth were missing and the t-chain was messed up.

I've contemplated selling it off and on this whole time... and i havent even had it on the road yet... Sure i drove it at Mosport and it was amazing, NO problems, bone stock and so fun to drive... but after looking at the costs of regular maintence... it's kinda scary. BUT i figure i dont want to mod this car to the extreme like i did my last project... so mod money can go into maintence money i guess.

Oh ya... and i found out it also needs a clutch due to an old rubber clutch... everything you read online about buying a 944 says they have bad motor mounts, so i assumed it needed $300 in mounts... not $900 in a clutch kit.

JohnKoaWood

BINGO!

I have found the cost of ownership not directly proportional to the cost of purchase.. as there have been some high dollar cars bought and sold that were in worse shape than some bargains.. but the cost of ownership is all the same either way!

86 951 Driver

Heres my story on these cars. I have wanted just a 944 n/a since I was little kit. My dad owned several of these cars. First one being the 1979 Martini Rossi Edition 924. The other was a black 1983 944 and a 1986 944 auto which he just sold to move on to a boxster. I love the styling of the car. Even the N/A's I love the styling. My dad clocked almost 180,000 miles on his 83 N/A and he said it was the most fun car he had owned. he drove it from STL to Cape Giruado about 2 hours away from STL every week. He said put on those brights and just cruise down I-55.

When I was 17 I wanted to buy my first porsche. As I saw 944's were not that expensive. Little did I know that the maintainance was pretty $$$$. So I bought a 1984 RZ350 instead. Which I love BTW.

Later that year my dad asked me if I wanted to go look at a parts car. It was a Porsche. I was thrilled. Car didn't run, but all the glass was in good shape. Body was banged up. I asked if I could drive it. He said I need to get it running first. Needless to say after 1 month of tinkering with the engine cleaning out the fuel system and get the ignition system sorted out. She started and ran. Kind of rough but I could figure that out later. The car was fun I learned a lot. The more I worked on it the more I love these series of cars. Now I have a 1986 944 Turbo. It has needed some work replacement of the turbo(which I couldn't do myself) and some other projects. But once its sorted out I will be loving every second of. You can say what you want about these cars, but nothing is more fun to drive.

/rant.

yellowline

Lots of reasons.

For ~$10,000:
E36 M3
WRX
16V 928
Basket-case 911
Boxster
Spec Miata
E34 M5
300ZX

For ~ $20,000:
996
911SC/3.2
32V 928
C5 Z06
Golf R32
Mazdaspeed 3
E46 M3
E30 M3
E39 M5
E55 AMG
Fox Mustang Cobra w/ IRS
550 Outlaw
A serious down payment on a new GTI or WRX
Have a shot at haggling with someone who needs to unload a $25k car this minute, like an Elise or 930.

It would take a severely dedicated person to not eventually say "time to sell" even having good luck with a 944/68. Most everyone who admits to liking cars would find SOMETHING they like on that list.

ZR8ED

The fact that these cars are 20+ years old, most people have no idea the maintance required on cars this old, even ones in decent shape. Lots of mint low mileage 25yr old 944's with 25 yr old rubber hoses, vac lines, wiring etc.

The cost of ownership in relation to that of the purchase price surprises people as well.

I also think the main thing that is a major stumbling point, is people buying the cars, and instead of simply enjoying them, get caught up in a major restoration before they even have a chance to learn to love the car. Part two to this is that as soon as they buy it, they want to start modding it. There is a very good reason that these cars don't have 500hp from the factory, and if they did, the entry price would be nothing close to what it is now.
I have learned the very hard way to just appreciate these cars for what they are. (minus minor type mods and customizations) Drive them and enjoy them, and do not expect to compete against modern cars. It is just not a fair comparison. As listed above, a small increase in initial cost, can buy you a much more modern vehicle that can easily beat the 944 in 9 out of 10 direct comparisons.

I'm leaving mine more or less alone.
Take what you want from my 25yrs of hot rodding, restoring, racing experience.
Cheers!

hevquip

My first car was a two-tone '83 944 and total beater. Bought it senior year in high school and didn't put a cent into it. Headgasket blew a year later and it was such a pile, I didn't fix it. Shortly after, I went on a search for 951's and tracked down a black '86 with 90K miles and black on beige interior (my fave ext/int combo). The seller never disclosed a cracked radiator and there was an oil pressure problem that was addressed as well. I drove the hell out of that car, did very few mods, and fell in love with my first Porsche, but the clutch began to slip and I realized I was too young and too broke to afford it, so I sold her and included my 944 in the deal as well to get it out of the driveway. That was about 7-8 years ago and I have kicked myself over it EVER SINCE until recently...

I have acquired another 951, I will never be 951less ever again, I will never "move on" (maybe "move up", as I've considered 930's and 996 TT's) I'm familiar with their expenses and am prepared for them. If you build up the car, you can have reliability, but a lot of first-time owners either aren't expecting the kind of money it takes or don't have it, so work never gets done and the car gets passed on. It seems like a lot of 951's I see for sale are in a state of repair and the ones that aren't are probably priced above the budget of most people getting into a 944/951/968. I don't care for concourse looks, just a motor that runs nicely . There are some faults I've found with my current car that would best fixed by me just buying a different 951, but I'm partial to this car as being a project and I'd rather fix it up than sell it to someone else and break their heart when it doesn't live up their expectations (kinda like my first experience). I think that last bit explains a lot of reason for turnover. The car I have now meets my expectations (lol it probably would fail a lot of people's standards though, but I'm not picky) and I know what I'm getting into, but I was able to look at the from prior ownership. I think that most first time owners don't know what they're getting into and because of this, will either hate the car because of it's maintenance costs, or will love the car and still have to sell it because of the maintenance costs, while they think about the one they will own down the road. I would say that most people who buy these as projects or restorations have or have had a 944/951/968, though most prior owners are typically smart enough to look for a good condition car.

odurandina

hope the kids will be able to read these great stories. appreciate your posts.

elzergone

I love my NA. Though it's often stressful, painful, frustrating, and occaisionly maddening, its worth it to me. It really is like being in a relationship; she may not be the prettiest, or the fastest, or anywhere approaching reliable, but it's still the car I fell in love with. Sometimes I'll feel a twinge of sadness, knowing that some other Porsche drivers look down on our cars, but really it's their loss. My car makes me happy, and the community is second to none in my experience.

Hollywood D

I think a lot of it is just people failing to do their homework before purchase. They may see a Porsche for $3k and wet their pants thinking they can own a german sports car for so cheap. Then the first time it doesn't start or it breaks down on the road, they have no idea what to do.

Or they assume that because it's german engineered that it requires no maintenance and will last forever. I've heard that one before.

odurandina

yeah, just ask a volkswagon ownerthinking they just purchased the German version of a Honda Accord.

most over-rated garbage ever.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/art...ls.html?cat=27

http://www.epinions.com/review/auto_...t_416543379076

http://www.motorauthority.com/webopi...ive-ever-owned

Techno Duck

I do love the 944 but frankly i am sick of them, i think the extent of the modifications i did to my turbo did me in.. that an owning and working on one of these since 2002, not to mention restoring two of my friends 944's, a 968 and helping various other people with timing belt. head gasket and clutch jobs i am just sick of them. I wish i kept my 951 stock, ill just leave it at that. I would never buy another 944 unless it was a 8v n/a for track only use.

I do plan on buying a 993 or 6-GT3 in a year or two and almost bought a 993 last summer. My 951 is basically no fun to have as a fun street car anymore or even a weekend car as usually it requires something adjusted before or after driving it and that takes all the fun out of it.. that was fine when i was in my early 20's and still in school..now i have better things to do with my time than spending full days working on the car. It will be retired to track only use. A stock 993 or 6-GT3 with just suspension work will allow me to just get in and drive.

Ive thought long and hard about selling my 951 and just going with a 993 or 6-GT3 for all around fun, weekend and track use. But after finally getting my 951 back on the track last year i changed my mind. Plus its far more disposable than either of the other 2 are.

I am totally jealous of my friends that run WRX's as they make great power, the cars are usable in the snow, make great power and they handle very well. That and they can buy a factory new short block from the dealer for about $1800. You will pay close to that having an engine builder rebuild a short block for you and you are reusing an old block. I like the new 5-door STi and have thought about taking a trip to the dealer. If i didnt already own a Jeep for a daily id probably have one in the driveway already.