X-Post - Interest in DIY chip tuning?
12-10-2009, 12:12 AM
#31
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Small Business Partner
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Small Business Partner
Thread Starter
If experience and learning something new is the goal for the NA owner, then absolutly. This is fantastic!
I just reread my posts, and I apologize if I was sounding pessimistic. I just think that spending time and money on improving the NA engine is all in vane. You could spend thousands of dollars and make 30 more HP. (I know you system is less than $200, but its still only 2-3hp in an NA car)
However, for a turbo car, this is brilliant
(I've said my piece .... I shall interrupt no more!)
I just reread my posts, and I apologize if I was sounding pessimistic. I just think that spending time and money on improving the NA engine is all in vane. You could spend thousands of dollars and make 30 more HP. (I know you system is less than $200, but its still only 2-3hp in an NA car)
However, for a turbo car, this is brilliant
(I've said my piece .... I shall interrupt no more!)But you are right, if extreme HP is what you are after, there are much better platforms then the 944 NA. However, this is more about the learning process, and bringing a community together...
12-10-2009, 01:33 AM
#34
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a Weltmeister chip for my 1990 S2 it adds 22HP and 21FtLbsT and it costs $299 today... So chip tuning is a worthwhile venture...
now I wonder if getting vario cams from a 968 and mapping the chip to use them in the 944S/S2 setup is an option...
now I wonder if getting vario cams from a 968 and mapping the chip to use them in the 944S/S2 setup is an option...
12-10-2009, 01:42 AM
#35
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Small Business Partner
Rennlist Member
Rennlist
Small Business Partner
Thread Starter
Is the 968 VarioCam setup computer controlled, or simply based off of oil pressure?
12-10-2009, 02:38 AM
#36
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not exactly sure but thats the drift i get of the Vario cam... Soooooo... If you can get Vario Cams and slap them in the S2 and simply retune the chip with 968 code it would be a nice increase in power...
12-10-2009, 03:01 AM
#38
Instructor
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Miami
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not sure if this is the same system used on the 968 but it shines a bit of light on the subject...
http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpors.../variocamplus/
I read something more about there being a belt that runs the exhaust cam right from the crankshaft and the intakecam is variable by a hydraulic oil pressure feed unit... but no cut away views to be found yet...
http://www.porsche.com/usa/aboutpors.../variocamplus/
I read something more about there being a belt that runs the exhaust cam right from the crankshaft and the intakecam is variable by a hydraulic oil pressure feed unit... but no cut away views to be found yet...
12-10-2009, 03:24 AM
#39
The 968 uses a solenoid to push the tensioner up on the chain at a specified RPM (I believe it's around 4,000) thereby advancing the intake cam. It works, but it isn't worth that much power. I suspect it was more of a proof-of concept exercise.
A particularly industrious owner fitted two to his 928, then wrote about it online, which is the basis of my half-remembered facts, above.
A particularly industrious owner fitted two to his 928, then wrote about it online, which is the basis of my half-remembered facts, above.
12-10-2009, 03:29 AM
#40
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
The 968 uses a solenoid to push the tensioner up on the chain at a specified RPM (I believe it's around 4,000) thereby advancing the intake cam. It works, but it isn't worth that much power. I suspect it was more of a proof-of concept exercise.
A particularly industrious owner fitted two to his 928, then wrote about it online, which is the basis of my half-remembered facts, above.
A particularly industrious owner fitted two to his 928, then wrote about it online, which is the basis of my half-remembered facts, above.
12-10-2009, 05:12 AM
#41
Nordschleife Master
The 968 uses a solenoid to push the tensioner up on the chain at a specified RPM (I believe it's around 4,000) thereby advancing the intake cam. It works, but it isn't worth that much power. I suspect it was more of a proof-of concept exercise.
A particularly industrious owner fitted two to his 928, then wrote about it online, which is the basis of my half-remembered facts, above.
A particularly industrious owner fitted two to his 928, then wrote about it online, which is the basis of my half-remembered facts, above.
12-10-2009, 11:43 PM
#42
as said before +1 for Supercharger at 5PSI Boost!
The Stock DME can handle that small amount, an IC would not theoretically be need to start with although helpful, The NA's internals can handle it.
The best part is i have seen such small applications for for close to 1k or less, if you have the time, tools, and skill! those little M42 or M62 can push small 4 cyclinder engines decently!
in general its not to challenging, just requires Fab work and calculations!
The way i figure it, youll get around 30hp at 5 Boost and a chip could really help with the smoothness!
thats around 34$/HP, although not cheap, it can easily be expanded upon! slowly find good deals on injectors, an used or JDM IC. it will increase $/HP exponential! for every 1 degree F is roughly equal to 1 HP at the wheel. if you can pipe IC and get air 10-15F cooler for the cost of say 100$. now its 22.50$/HP...far better ratios! Upgrade and add a 25$ larger pully for 8 PSI...now your making 222HP easily!
As said by SFR, it can make up to 182HP at the wheels in all stock NA....with a custom chip you could squeeze all the power out
i cant see any chip companies being able to "retune" a chip for this type of change as it has SOOO many variables. self tuning is the only way to go!
reading back i think i was a little long winded......and far off topic but im not going to delete what took me so long to type! lol
EDIT: as if its not long enough...
A Custom Chip would be REQUIRED to setup a car to run E85 or other alternative Fuels! E85 is FAR more forgiving, especially with boost! you can boost MUCH further easier with it!
The Stock DME can handle that small amount, an IC would not theoretically be need to start with although helpful, The NA's internals can handle it.
The best part is i have seen such small applications for for close to 1k or less, if you have the time, tools, and skill! those little M42 or M62 can push small 4 cyclinder engines decently!
in general its not to challenging, just requires Fab work and calculations!
The way i figure it, youll get around 30hp at 5 Boost and a chip could really help with the smoothness!
thats around 34$/HP, although not cheap, it can easily be expanded upon! slowly find good deals on injectors, an used or JDM IC. it will increase $/HP exponential! for every 1 degree F is roughly equal to 1 HP at the wheel. if you can pipe IC and get air 10-15F cooler for the cost of say 100$. now its 22.50$/HP...far better ratios! Upgrade and add a 25$ larger pully for 8 PSI...now your making 222HP easily!
As said by SFR, it can make up to 182HP at the wheels in all stock NA....with a custom chip you could squeeze all the power out
i cant see any chip companies being able to "retune" a chip for this type of change as it has SOOO many variables. self tuning is the only way to go!
reading back i think i was a little long winded......and far off topic but im not going to delete what took me so long to type! lol
EDIT: as if its not long enough...
A Custom Chip would be REQUIRED to setup a car to run E85 or other alternative Fuels! E85 is FAR more forgiving, especially with boost! you can boost MUCH further easier with it!
12-11-2009, 12:09 AM
#43
Rainman
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
phil, i like your thinking.
ill have something for you hopefully soon if i can squeeze some more money together.
im doing a supercharger setup, a little more involved than you are getting at, and so far its only cost me about $400. really all i need to do now is fabricate.
i expect the $/hp to be around 5.....
ill have something for you hopefully soon if i can squeeze some more money together.
im doing a supercharger setup, a little more involved than you are getting at, and so far its only cost me about $400. really all i need to do now is fabricate.
i expect the $/hp to be around 5.....
12-11-2009, 12:40 AM
#44
SWEET
i will look forward to it!! i know it can be done cheap...yes there is more i know...i didnt want to get to indept on a non Forced induction thread/topic.
i will look forward to some pictures/list of used items/gains!
people have been SCing since the 50's its not to complex in general! just time, fab, and some money and alittle initiative! hell they SC planes so they could achieve higher altitudes! SC is by far easier to make/maintain than an SC and requires far less components.
i would love to SC my car but i'm currently in school, and with tuition and bills. money is a scarcity!
i think as a community if we could come up with a setup, just a well written set of instuctions/diagram, we could bring the NA into the light again and allow it to prove its worth. even if only a list/instructions/fabrication blueprints for the BONE STOCK NA's where to be made and sold say $100 it would offset the cost of making and working through the system to get rid of bugs and be in depth but simple for the average person, and allow SC of the NA's to become more prevelant
i think the Fabrication is what makes people iffy, its the unkown risk, but if there where blueprints, they could be taken to a machine shop and made relatively cheap. going into a machine shop saying i want something to mount this but i dont know how isnt much help and would make the shop charge more for something "custom"
i will look forward to it!! i know it can be done cheap...yes there is more i know...i didnt want to get to indept on a non Forced induction thread/topic.
i will look forward to some pictures/list of used items/gains!
people have been SCing since the 50's its not to complex in general! just time, fab, and some money and alittle initiative! hell they SC planes so they could achieve higher altitudes! SC is by far easier to make/maintain than an SC and requires far less components.
i would love to SC my car but i'm currently in school, and with tuition and bills. money is a scarcity!
i think as a community if we could come up with a setup, just a well written set of instuctions/diagram, we could bring the NA into the light again and allow it to prove its worth. even if only a list/instructions/fabrication blueprints for the BONE STOCK NA's where to be made and sold say $100 it would offset the cost of making and working through the system to get rid of bugs and be in depth but simple for the average person, and allow SC of the NA's to become more prevelant
i think the Fabrication is what makes people iffy, its the unkown risk, but if there where blueprints, they could be taken to a machine shop and made relatively cheap. going into a machine shop saying i want something to mount this but i dont know how isnt much help and would make the shop charge more for something "custom"
