944Ross

If you think your P-car dropped in value, wait til you go to sell/trade the Saab.

Jaay87S

Yup, Mike in CT bought it....and good point Ross, although it is kinda comparing apples and oranges but I see what you're saying

Potomac-Greg

It's an awful time to sell ANYTHING right now. Nobody NEEDS a 944, and most people are restricting spending to things that they NEED. If you could have held the car another 6 months, you might have done better. No guarantees, of course. I'd love an S2, but I have a very clean (73K) n/a and I've put a lot of money into it. When the time is right, I'll either find that S2 that fits my dreams, or I'll get up the nerve to do a drivetrain swap. But like everyone else, I'm keeping my savings up because the economy is a long way from stable.

Dimi 944

I agree with you, Greg!

67King

I'd said it before, and I still think the same thing. The car was just not worth what you thought it was. Now, PLEASE don't take this personally. I am NOT trying to offend you, or anyone else out here. You just seem almost confused in your disappointment. Can't help the disappointment. Hopefully, however, I can explain to you the perspectives that have prevented you from getting what you thought you could get for the car.

Part of the problem you see is that you are letting people's words here sway your perspective. People here are saying "I wish I had the money!" Well, I wish I had $250,000 to spend on a car, too, and I'd have an F430 in my garage. But as I don't, my opinion doesn't count. Shoot, while I'm playing with money I don't have, I'd pay $300,000 for one if I could afford to.

Anyway, here's another way to look at it. Consider the perspective of someone not specifically looking for a Porsche:
- The car is 20 years old. It is not a pleasure car. It will need a lot of maintenance.
- The car is a Porsche. Parts are expensive. Competent labor is VERY expensive. One could easily drop more than the cost of the car the first time they took it in for any work.
- One of the big positives you've stated is that the car is mechanically sound. If that is the selling point, then there are a LOT of less expensive cars to maintain that fall well under your pricing point.
- There are better "bang for buck" cars out there. A Merkur XR4Ti that would sell for anywhere near your asking price would have had a LOT of stuff done to it, probably 350-ish horsepower, PU bushings, Koni shocks/struts, big brake conversions, and on and on and on. Neighbor of mine bought one about 6 months ago for $850 that was extremely solid, mechanically sound, and in much better shape than your S2. It was, however, bone stock. Granted, he did get a screaming deal. Not sure what BMW E36 328's are going for nowadays, probably not far from what you were asking.
- A 20 year old daily driven car in the north is a pile of rust hiding under undercoating, whether or not you know it. Anyone with experience with older cars from anywhere up north already knows this. I, unfortunately, had to learn that lesson the hard way.

Now, in terms of it appealing specifically to Porsche/S2 people:
- It needs paint and bodywork.
- GOOD paint and bodywork is not cheap. I'm painting a relatively straight 951, and I will have well over $500 in materials alone. Good paint is $300 a gallon (PPG's DCC Concept base/color). Red is a LOT more expensive. Add in epoxy primer, surfacer, sealer, clear coat, all the catalysts, etc. and it gets VERY pricy. If you are a Porsche guy, you want it done right. It won't be cheap.
- There are a lot of comparable cars (951's, other S2's) out there in this price range that don't need work. They may not be on the market exactly right now, but they pop up relatively frequently. In other words, the market is your enemy.
- Condition of the exterior of the car tells prospective buyers the owner could not afford to properly maintain the car.
- Condition of the exterior of the car makes me wonder what kind of difficulties will be encountered trying to get it back into shape.
- It is a daily driven northern car. Working on a northern car is a royal PITA. Bolts rust and won't loosen, there is almost certainly rust that can't be seen. There are much better candidates out there for track car conversions.

In summary, I see this car as a parts car. Had I think it was Chilibluepepper's chassis been available months ago (when I bought mine), and your car been available at a fair price (which I think is $3000.....MAYBE up to $3500 if I could see it in person to check out a few other things), it would have been a good combo for a track car. Again, though, it all boils down to being a 20 year old daily driven northern car. NOT an appealing car, regardless of its pedigree.


FWIW, I've sold 12 cars and one motorcycle in about the past 12 years. I was disappointed with what I got for 11 of them, and happy with 2 of them. I'm probably about average, which is why so many people A) lease cars, or B) trade-in cars taking a huge hit on price. I PROMISE you that this will not be the only time you will have been disappointed in what you were able to get for a car you have sold.

theykallmekem

hey jay, promise youll come back from time to time to visit =)

yellowline

Hey John, you bought control arms from me for your S.

I'll be honest- I had your original asking price as cash in hand, and a need for another car. The description of the damage turned me off, though.

Now, I can't say I would've bought the car, but I do wish I had gone to the Cape to at least look.

Good luck with the Saabaru.

V2Rocket

even my mazda millenia has the same 2.5 V6 as those two

Jaay87S

Thanks for the detailed and thoughtful response 67King, I really do agree with 99% of what you said. Like I said, it's less about the value and more about people using these cars for what they're really meant for. The one point I never really put much thought into is the bit about it being a Northeast daily driver the PITA with even subtle rust. When my buddy Yan and I replaced the clutch we certainly ran into a few of those stubborn-rusted bolts...

On the other hand, I gotta disagree with you about it not being appealing (?!) and there really isn't much else out there with the same bang for your buck--which is what you would think most peopel seeking a sports car would/should desire.

A Merkur XR4Ti--I don't think I've ever even seen one of those in person let alone one for sale (none within 500 miles of here on autotrader or craigslist) and 328's are a great alternative--but I searched autotrader for manual 1990+ 3 Series between $2-$6k within 500 miles of here and found a dozen--none of which were 328's, just a split between 325i's and 318i's (no thanks)...and BMW made ten times as many of those as 944's (don't quote me there). Now maybe you could find a nissan in that price range, but there's a reason you didn't mention them in the first place...

Not trying to split hairs here, I guess I wish the '44's got a little more respect...oh well, I guess that just means we can all continue to find them cheap for ourselves!!


Thanks again yellowline--good luck with your search. Let me know if you see anything out this way, I would be more than happy to take a look for you.

Jaay87S

...and nobody comments on the pics?! I thought that was a pretty nice spectrum of my collection haha

Po924S

I like your Saab...

J Berk

Sorry things did not work out better with the S2...they are great cars!

Love your pics....like the saab...good luck with it !

best

Joe

67King

I've had a few XR's, betweeen the parts cars and the good ones. And they are top notch in the bang for the buck. But unfortunately, most were abused, and not well cared for.

Anyway, I junked my last XR and bought my 951 in the same week. Junked my XR because it was from the north, and the rust had REALLY gotten to them. I tried to sell it as a whole with the boatload of stuff I had done to it, but had no takers. Regardless, they are great cars. Are they on the same level as 944's, 300ZX, 3rd gen RX7's, and Supras? No. But, I'd take one over a (non-M) 3 series of the same vintage (E30) eight days a week, and I'd take one over the NA versions of the three Japanese cars I mentioned, as well. Of the more exotic offerings out there, the 944 is without a doubt the best for the money. And not that I'm objective, but it isn't even close!

But combining that last XR experience with a couple of other 951's I looked at, one having spent a lot of time in New York, the other in Ohio, and I've seen what they can look like. Like you saw with your clutch, even if the body is in good shape, the corrosion on all of the fasteners can add huge headaches (shoot, my Mazda only had two winters, and all of the bolts holding its underbody tray broke).

Didn't mean to say or imply that the 944 isn't appealing. Trust me, it is VERY appealing!

Thanks for the offer, as well. But, after a 1.5 year mild search, the last 6 months of which were done in earnest, I found one and settled on it, I guess about 2 months ago, now. Here's the info on it: https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-...oject-car.html