VaSteve

Nothing worse than making a hobby into "work" by adding a deadline. We have enough stress in life.

Z-man

To say a racecar is too nice for the racetrack is like saying Brokeback Mountian was too PC for gays to like it.

Buy it, track it - have fun with it. The car that is...

-Z.

Cory M

I wouldn't count on making much money from the parts you strip from the car (if you decide to build it). I'm about 90% done building a 944 Spec car and I have had very little luck selling the parts even at giveaway prices (advertising in Pelican, Rennlist, Craigslist). With a lot of the parts it just isn't worth the time. You'll have somebody email 10 times and have you send them 50 pictures of a part, you'll figure out shipping costs, then they'll flake on you - it just isn't worth it for a $50 part (unless you've got tons of free time and want another hobby). The 944 shop and local Porsche wrecking yards basically told me to throw everything away. Power 944 seats are worthless if they're torn, etc. NOT WORTH THE HEADACHES.

I don't think the car is too nice. A nicer car has usually been maintained better and you will have less stuff break on it when you get it onto the track. It will also look nicer and you won't feel the need to spend time and money onthe paint work. Building a spec car isn't too hard but it is time consuming, the main reason my car isn't completed yet is a lack of time (and I have the tools, garage space, and skills to build).

If you want to get on the track in a 944 right away - buy a finished car. If you want the experience of building a race car - buy this one and build it.

Don't forget that one mishap at the track in your 993 will easily pay for a competitive spec car (or two).

Legoland951

PPI on a race car is a first for me. I don't think a PPI can find metal shavings in the cylinder head or wrong bearing size. I had to fix a motor worked on by a "motor builder" and worked fine until the metal shaving from head rebuild got smashed on the valve seat, causing 0 compression. The rod bearings ALL spun as the shop ground the crank and installed standard bearings. End result, new used engine had to be installed at $2500 labor and parts. All he got out of that "brand new" rebuilt block that came with the car was 6 laps. When I took it apart, EVERYTHING LOOKED BRAND NEW. I mean brand new (block, head, pistons, rods, bearings) but grenaded anyways. However, the crank was history, the cylinder walls were scored, the rod bearings spun causing damage to the rods, so the only thing we salvaged was the head.

Another spec car I had to work on the owner had the ignition switch bypassed to a manual flip switch by a pro shop. They forgot to install the cooling fan and the car overheated at the track cracking the head and blowing the head gasket. That was the start of his long list of problems and $8k later, his car is still not working right. His car has always been worked on by pro race shops/builders.

If you don't work on your own car, make sure you have a huge wallet and expect to spend $10k+ a year (thats being conservative since track time and lodging is expensive) on top of the cost of buying/building your car. If you work on your car, build it yourself.

TD in DC

Legoland,

You have a point, but you are stretching it to the point of hyperboly. Of course you can do a very thorough PPI of a race car, just like you can any other car. You can and should drop the pan and inspect/replace the rod bearings, you can do leak downs, compression tests, inspect everything short of an entire motor teardown You can also look at records. You can inspect very carefully several other things on the car.

Now, does this mean that the PPI will insure that nothing will happen to the car? No, absolutely not. But even if something does go wrong, how much worse off are you than if you had bought a street car and rebuilt it as a precautionary matter? I mean . . . both cars would have one rebuild by you, so the cost of that rebuild wouldn't be any different. Also, if you do not rebuild the street motor, how would it be any safer than a motor in the race car? Finally, you could buy a pre-built car, and then find a $500 944 motor that you build on the side for the possibility that the motor in your pre-built car goes bad.

Legoland951

Well, most of the 944 engines I see leak a good amount of oil/fluids. A normal 944 engine will not pass inspection just for that reason alone. I know a PPI is better than none. Its good to buy a street car and rebuild it just as it is to buy a race car and rebuild. However, a thrashed 944 that requires a rebuild costs $500 whereas the already built car costs a good amount more. If I know the history of the race car and who built it /worked on it, I would DEFINITELY buy the built car provided I don't wrench on it. I agree with you 100 percent on that point. Talk to Tim Comeau and I am sure he has the cost breakdown details.

curveraider

Great info guys, thanks for all of your input. My current situation is that I do have the space to work on a car and I have some skills in working on old BMW 2002's. I have never done an engine rebuild, but I did buy a cheap O harbour freight engine stand

Maybe it is just the area I live in or I just don't know where to look, but I can not seem to find anything in the Bay Area for less then $1000 running or not. Maybe if I had a tow vehicle I could find something more afordable... I will try running that idea past the wife

M758

Arlen,
Nothing wrong with a cheap engine stand. I have a cheap "Powerbuilt" one from Checker/Kragen. It has worked fine and currently holds my spare engine.

Now cars under $1000 are not that common.

My 87 924S chassis had been my street car until wrecked
My 84 chassis was over $1400 and purchased by seeing it on side of road then asking the owner.- Dragged it home, it did not run.
My 83 944 was $1200 and a good deal. Found it in the news paper one day as owner was "selling his project". I dragged it home too, but drove it onto the trailer. A careful inspection lead me to putting the car on the road as street car and doing some autocross. Sadly in it last autocross just after I did the motor mounts and rod bearings I slid off and whacked parking lot block. The course was not really and autocross as damage like that is VERY RARE, but it was enough to bend the chassis at pass side jack point tweaking the frame. So the chassis is fixable, but I don't want to spent the money. So I parting it very slowly.

my 88 924S was the real a great deal. - Got in Ebay for $330. Car was local and had an engine fire so was missing some wireing and few item he parted. I dragged that one home too. I got a a straight tub, spare rear suspension, spare high compression motor, and short 5th gear tranny. Heck I sold the wheels off the car and few items and it paid for the car. I consider myself lucky on that one.

So $500 944's are out there, but anything under $1000 I consider to be a good buy. For racers the parts alone are worth it.

curveraider

On a side note, I have seen 944's with 18" turbo twist wheels on them. Are those usually the NB style or will a 944 take WB rims? I know that this has nothing to do with a track car and that the added dimension will make the car feel like a slug, but I just happen to have an extra set and I like the look.

Thanks,

Arlen

M758

NB? WB? Not sure what that means.

There are two offsets on these cars. 23.3 mm for use on 83-86 cars. 52.3 mm on 87 and later 944 and also required for the 924S due to the narrow fenders.

Turbo Twists are more similar in offset to teh 52.3 mm offset so can be used on later cars. Early cars need spacers to run those wheels.

944 spec has limits on wheels (15x7 Cookie cutters or phone dials) and limits cars to the stock track width found on the 944.

BeerBurner

I think he means "narrow body" and "wide body". or "924" versus "944".

BB.

curveraider

Sorry if I was not clear. Yes, I was refering to narrow body and wide body rims. Again they would not be to run on the car in the spec class, just to use on the car when the car is not being run on the track.

Thanks again,

Dmitry S.

If you don't end up buying this car, then do you think you could relay the seller's information to me ?

pixrken

Arlen,

If you have the mechanical skills AND the time to work on a street to track car conversion the project is certainly doable.
I started my track car project but found it hard to consistently work on it because of family commitments and such.
I ended up having to farm out the jobs to finish the car.
If I were to do it over again I would have bought a race-prep car.

Now the counterpoint to this is the owner of the black 924S below.
He did the top front end in a weekend (complete front end reseal, rollers, hoses, water pump, thermostat, timing belt, balance shaft belt, basic tune-up).
He gutted the car in another weekend.
I helped on a weekend to remove the tar from the tunnel and footwell and clean the adhesive from the pulled carpeting.
A heat gun for the tar and a bottle of "De-Solv-It" (bought from Costco) seems to works best for the adhesive.
Using a heat gun on the adhesive did not work as well because it would get gummy and start to burn and smoke.
Removed the dash and drop the car off for a week to TC Design in Milpitas for a custom welded roll cage.
Just help pickup the car on Friday and the cage looks very nice!
Work still left to be done:
1. Bottom front end rebuild (new control arms, ball joints, motor mounts, etc.)
2. The complete 944spec suspension per ruleset. The torsion bars are a pain because you have to drop the rear to access them. They are not like the old 911's that had pop out access holes on the body to change the torsion bars.
3. Race seat, harness, fire suppression system, kill switch.
4. misc. cleanup.

The owner is not rebuilding the engine at this time because it seems strong (leak-down test) but once the engine comes out then go for a complete rebuild and cross drill the crankshaft.

Try to look for related work when you replace things i.e.- if you change the clutch you might as well change the rear main seals.

Sorry if this is long winded but to answer your original question, I don't think the car is too nice to turn into a track rat.

A $2K car is about my pain threshold because I expect to dump at least 3x that for rebuild and conversion.
Every 944 I came across from six friends that bought one in the last year leaks oil including some low mileage ones. I think it's the age of the gaskets and seals rather than the mileage of the cars so expect to change them.

Let's put this into perspective of why you're even looking at this.
I'm sure it's the same reason why I built my car.
Once you do enough track days you get to a point where you're fast enough you start worrying about putting your street car in danger.
You start looking for a cheaper alternative that is still fun to drive but not worry as much if you damage the hardware.

Good luck on your 944 search!

Interesting you pick black for the color of the 944, it follows the pattern of owners selecting a color to match their street car.

Here are some street cars and their 944/924S alter egos.






--Ken

xsboost90

those would be the narrow body twists, the wide bodyones are very hard to fit w/o an aggressive camber.