View Poll Results: What's the dumbest or most sadistic example of Porsche Engineering on 944s?
Location of clutch (requiring disassembly of entire car to change)
59
31.22%
Use of allen/cheesehead bolts instead of NORMAL bolts
9
4.76%
Turbocharger location (on 951s)
4
2.12%
Interference design in general
26
13.76%
Dash construction / material selection (crack city, baby!)
15
7.94%
Stupid thermostat snap-ring
9
4.76%
Requiring a $700 tool to tension a $30 belt
39
20.63%
Whaddaya' mean there's no torque spec. for the head bolts?
0
0%
Rear seats (can anyone SERIOUSLY sit back there?)
10
5.29%
Other (please explain)
18
9.52%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll
Worst example of Porsche engineering stupidity on 944s?
11-14-2005, 03:50 PM
#1
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In self-imposed exile.
Posts: 14,072
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
7 Posts
Worst example of Porsche engineering stupidity on 944s?
Inspired by another thread. Actually many other threads. Let's settle this once and for all. . .
11-14-2005, 03:52 PM
#2
Set to Full-Auto
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
I'm not that fond of cheesehead bolts, not a big deal - but would not prefer them.
Method of attaching ball joints to late control arms - it would've been nice to have a bolt-on unit.
Method of attaching ball joints to late control arms - it would've been nice to have a bolt-on unit.
11-14-2005, 04:09 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Canberra
Posts: 873
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Good responses. . . Plastic sunroof gears come to mind also. . .
Trending Topics
11-14-2005, 04:10 PM
#8
Under the Radar
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,869
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
1) The rather hackjob DOHC setup on 16V cars. Why not just redo the whole belt setup for them? Better yet, why not just run a chain on all the cars? If BMW found a way, and it's good enough for them...
2) Have to pull the dash for heater core hoses.
3) Headlight wiring, running all the current through the switch, not having all of the lights cut out when the key is out of the ignition (Volvo did this right)
4) The jack. (again, Volvo did it better)
5) The whole back of the car is 1 piece of sheet metal. They could've put in removable back fenders, no doubt.
6) The hatch design.
7) Adding 2 bolts in the very front of the head by the coolant pipe for the upper hose, as if 10 head bolts couldn't keep the head down. Removing the broken bolts was the worst part of the HG job.
8) A supposedly hard clutch to change, unlike the 968s.
However, they did the manual sunroof, manual steering, and general suspension well.
2) Have to pull the dash for heater core hoses.
3) Headlight wiring, running all the current through the switch, not having all of the lights cut out when the key is out of the ignition (Volvo did this right)
4) The jack. (again, Volvo did it better)
5) The whole back of the car is 1 piece of sheet metal. They could've put in removable back fenders, no doubt.
6) The hatch design.
7) Adding 2 bolts in the very front of the head by the coolant pipe for the upper hose, as if 10 head bolts couldn't keep the head down. Removing the broken bolts was the worst part of the HG job.
8) A supposedly hard clutch to change, unlike the 968s.
However, they did the manual sunroof, manual steering, and general suspension well.
11-14-2005, 04:14 PM
#11
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SLC, UT
Posts: 1,690
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
timing chain anyone?
location of clutch ain't that hot, and the rubber centered clutch disc isn't too cool either....though I voted for dash construction because dash cracks are a pet peeve of mine
location of clutch ain't that hot, and the rubber centered clutch disc isn't too cool either....though I voted for dash construction because dash cracks are a pet peeve of mine
11-14-2005, 04:21 PM
#12
Race Director
Poor oilling scheme in the engine that leads to #2 rod bearing failures.
How many things do you see that still don't have a "fix" after 20+ years?
All else is really not that bad.
Lets look at the others..
1) Clutch... well given that the engine is in front and tranny in the back... not really anyplace else to put the darn clutch.
2) those 12 point bolts just require the right tool. Once that is done they are a non-issue
3) Turbo location... Well the right side turbo on the 924 would overheat and melt down. The 951 is much better for longevity and unless you do some funny stuff (like cutting out the pass foot well) there is not much space any place else.
4) Interference design... Well change the belt when needed and it not that bad. Plus many other cars use belts and even interference designs.
5) Dash... Well how many other late 70's and 80's dash board did not suffer cracks...
6) Thermostat snap ring... Pain yes, but if you clock it right it can be much easier. Problem of course is figuring that out and then remembering a few years later when you do pull it again.
7) Belt tension... You can tension by hand if you know how.
8) Head bolts... they have torque spec. Just look it up in the book. I have always torqued the head down to spec.
9) rear seats... well the are as good or better than in the 911 and great for kids and people in pinch or people you don't like.
How many things do you see that still don't have a "fix" after 20+ years?
All else is really not that bad.
Lets look at the others..
1) Clutch... well given that the engine is in front and tranny in the back... not really anyplace else to put the darn clutch.
2) those 12 point bolts just require the right tool. Once that is done they are a non-issue
3) Turbo location... Well the right side turbo on the 924 would overheat and melt down. The 951 is much better for longevity and unless you do some funny stuff (like cutting out the pass foot well) there is not much space any place else.
4) Interference design... Well change the belt when needed and it not that bad. Plus many other cars use belts and even interference designs.
5) Dash... Well how many other late 70's and 80's dash board did not suffer cracks...
6) Thermostat snap ring... Pain yes, but if you clock it right it can be much easier. Problem of course is figuring that out and then remembering a few years later when you do pull it again.
7) Belt tension... You can tension by hand if you know how.
8) Head bolts... they have torque spec. Just look it up in the book. I have always torqued the head down to spec.
9) rear seats... well the are as good or better than in the 911 and great for kids and people in pinch or people you don't like.
11-14-2005, 04:29 PM
#13
Drifting
well the sunroof is a disaster, the door handles suck (always high effort) (maybe 968 is better), they figured the clutch out eventually (968), would it have killed them to use coil springs in the rear? weak transmission, etc.
11-14-2005, 05:24 PM
#15
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 120
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I do not think that "engineering" is the correct word when applied to these vehicles, which is why these problems exist. Evolution is more correct in my mind. For instance, "Where do we put the damn turbo now? - There really is only one place. Also, "Lets use the Audi transaxle - WOOOPS, where do we put the clutch". I am an engineer (BSME, MSAE), and these cars were not engineered, there is evidence everywhere! I do love the result however.