89AZ944

Eric-

I am not sure if that applies SPECIFICALLY to an 944S2, but it is part of some observations made by some people in my local PCA chapter (In the Arizona desert).

http://az.pca.org/motor_pool/article...nd_product.htm

Another thing to consider is the cone style filters may damage your DME due to the oil used in the filter. I have known some people who swear by them and I know some who swear at them. Since cost seems to be a factor in your decision, I would error on the side of caution and look to the drilled airbox mod https://rennlist.com/forums/924-931-944-951-968-forum/190222-perforated-airbox-and-astonishing-depth.html that many Rennlisters have done for a cosmetic noise improvement.

Just my $0.02....

Brad E.

Blue S2

DME, you mean it will damage the Air Sensor! hehe, the DME is in the passenger footwell guarded by thick sheets of plywood, metal, carpeting, pastic, and stupid rivet style clasps holding its casing together. You can get it out... but you can NEVER get it in right!

Z-man

My cracked engine head aside, I don't think the S2 motor is fragile, but that's the perception in the aftermarket.

Don't believe me? How many power-related mods can you find in performance magazines for the 944S2? How many are there for the 951? A Honda Civic?

Another reason that limits the aftermarket companies from producing items specifically for the S2 is that there weren't as many S2's produced.

-Z-man

Fishey

There are diffrent generations of S2 heads and in the final generation are extremely durable. The reason no one moddifiys the S2 is because everyone who wants a fast 944 just buys a Turbo. The small percentage of S2 owners who do want a faster car are mislead. They read post like this on rennlist and belive that every bolton looses HP. The real truth is most S2 moddifications will net you a gain in HP and a loss in TQ(lower RPM range). Ohh, I almost forgot and the best moddification for the money for the engine is seen as some sort of a explosion on wheels and compleately mis-understood. (Nitrous)

Rob in Oz

If you're thinking about replacing the stock filter, hopefully this will change your mind....

http://www.max-boost.co.uk/max-boost...tm#conefilters


Cheers

Rob

tifosiman

(hoping not to steal Matt's thunder here...................)

The factory was originally going to call the 968 the "944 S3", but when the marketing guys decided that the car had to have an "all new" designation in order to boost sales and totally distance it from the "lowly" 944 models of the past, they changed the name to the 968.

When Matt jammed a 968 3.0 into his 944 chassis, he couldn't quite call it a 968 car, so "S3" seemed an appropriate moniker. Can't say as I disagree with him.

Fishey

God...

I mean on the S2 the filter is not in the engine bay its in the headerpanel. So what he talkes about here.

Basicly says that on the S2 there will be improvements..

Not to mention the guy is a retarded because he doesn't even take into account that there is alot more airflow under the hood when driving down the road compared to a dyno. Also what is up with the black car in a july traffic jam comment all about? Heatsoak? I mean who needs the extra little gain of HP in a FREAKING TRAFFIC JAM! This is the exact mis-information I was talking about..

Read this...
http://new.minimania.com/web/SCatago...2/ArticleV.cfm

I am only useing the link to deminstrate how diffrent airflow is from the road to the dyno.

Z-man

Wih all due respect, Fishey:

1. Yes, the 951 is far simpler to get big increases in power. That's the beauty of a turbo!

2. The 944S2 is getting long it the tooth - they are in the 15+ year old range. In my experience, it is already expensive enough to properly maintain an S2 and keep it up to speed in stock form, mostly due to it's age. Modifying the car only increases the maintenance costs exponentially. Then again, I do a bit of track driving with my S2, so the maintenance intervals are shorter, and there are some maintenance items like rod bearings that a street driven 944S2 won't ever need! I have a bone stock 944S2 - I meticuously maintain it, but I also drive it hard. And since I'm not a mechanic, I do spend a bit of $$ on the car. (To put it in perspective: when I come home with a $500.00 repair/maintenance bill, my wife is happy about it! And my car does see a lot of time at my mechanics place!)

3. Yes, a 944S2 can be modified - even the factory did it (ref: Firestone Firehawk 944S2). It's just not the easiest thing to do - it will cost more $$ to get little hp increases in a 944S2 than with a 951. And yes, often the mods done to a 944S2 tend to rob the car of the wonderful low end torque. Since acceleration at low speeds is what most 'butt dynos' can feel, people who mod their 944S2 are disappointed with the results.

4. Nitros on a 944S2? Yeah, it can be done, and the car can be made to go faster. In a straight line. Big Deal. If you want to go fast in a straight line in your 944S2, you're missing the whole point of the car - it is meant to tear through the corners! Get a Mustang. With Nitrous. Have a blast going straight!

-Z-man.

Fishey

This is what I am talking about this is mis-information..

Why? Can I not use my Nitrous at an AutoX or a Road Course? How is it diffrent then having more power in a 951? So are you saying that the people with moddified 951's are wasting there money and should buy a Mustang?

Z-man

Talk about misinformation! I take it you haven't autocrossed or done a DE, have you?

1. Most, if not all autocross venues do not allow the use of nitrous for obvious reasons (small area & unpredictable sudden acceleration can result in damage to property and car) PCA doesn't allow it, and I'm pretty sure SCCA and NASA don't allow it either. Besides, the straights are so short at autocrosses, that you wouldn't be able to use the NO2 effectively - by the time your car started to speed up, it would be time to slow down! (BTW: That's why the 951 isn't that great an autocross car either - the 944S2 and 951 typically run in the same class, and the S2's tend to spank the 951's given equal driving ability)

2. For road courses, I really don't see the value of using Nitrous. It's just not economical or feasible. For DE's, it's not wortht he extra cost (you'd go through a bottle pretty quickly - it wouldn't last but a 20 minute session or so) And for road racing, if they did allow nitrous in club racing (not sure if they do), you'd be bumped all the way up to GT3 or GT2. I don't care if you have a 200-shot of NO2, you're still not going to be competitive in those classes with a Nitrous shod 944S2!

3. Nitrous vs turbo chargnig - different applications altogether. Don't even try to make people believe the two are the same.

4. No, I'm not saying folks should not modify their 951's - modifying a 951 is easier, there are greater hp gains to be had, and modest to decent increases in power can be made without greatly effecting the reliability of the motor. THAT is my point - it is easier to modify a 951 and make reliable power than it is to modify a 951. That's all.

NO2 doesn't really work well in AX or Road racing. Sure, it helps in drag racing, or for street racing, (!) but that's about it. Like I said before, if you want your 944S2 to go fast in a straight line, your best bet is to take the badging off of it and attach it to a Mustang GT.

Modifying a 944S2 to go fast in a straight line is like using a pruning saw to cut down a tree - yeah, it will work, but there are far better tools that can accomplish the job much easier.

-Z-man.

Fishey

Actually PCA, SCCA, and NASA all allow the use of Nitrous and also ban it in certain classes/Regions and Events. Most Specifiy the use of a "Blowdown tube" is needed for it to be used.

Anyways, You know nothing about how to use Nitrous obvious by your post. I am sure that you don't even understand that driving my car on N20 and without N20 is absolutely NO DIFFRENT except for the power (No need to do anything but drive). Running Nitrous would give me a extreme advantage in AutoX or at Road Track. The fact that you group nitrous and turbo's togeather is just funny. They are not similar at all except the both add power. The diffrence is that Nitrous is instant and turbo's have lag. This lag is the reason turbo's are not as good as a base S2 in autoX. Thats the great thing about Nitrous is that there is no spool time and the power is there instantly meaning you can use it effectivly in a autoX course.

P.S. I ran out of other price effective things to do to my S2 before I started working on the engine

tifosiman

I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance!

Blue S2

HAHA!


Anyways though, how much was the Firehawk S2 ? Like 225 or something? Even the factory wasn't pulling too much until they modified it for 968 form with the vario system.

Z-man

What's there to know about how to use a nitrous system? C'mon - I've seen "The Fast and the Furious!" You get going at a decent pace in 3rd or 4th gear, hit the 'GO button' and WHAM-O - you're able to go faster in a Jetta than an S2000! Unless, of course, you hit the juice too early, and then, an Asian gang will come over to your house and kill you. Fo Shizzle, yo.

Fishey, I really don't want to continue arguing with you, but you are way off with the Nitrous being beneficial at AX. Did you ever autocross with a nitrous equipped car? Heck, have you ever even autocrossed at all? If you haven't, then you have no idea, and all your talk about how good NO2 is for AX is simply a bunch of BS. Nitrous is a BAD idea for autocross. It is banned in most events. For DE type events, nitrous is a stupid waste of money. For Club racing - putting nitrous on your car is also pretty stupid, since it will put you in a category where the car is simply not competitive at all. (Try running your NO2 shod 944S2 against say, a tricked out 911 GT2. )

I do my fair share of autocrossing and DE's. (BTW: I'm the track tech co-chair for the NNJR PCA DE region) I'm also friends with quite a few club racers. IN ALL THREE VENUES, I have yet to come across ANYBODY that uses Nitrous on any type of 944, or any Porsche for that matter. NO ONE I KNOW in AX, DE, or CR uses nitrous. Chew on that for a while...

I do know of one person who requested my mechanic to install a nitrous system in his Porsche. This person has never done any autocross or DE, and doesn't plan on doing an AX or DE, as far as I can tell. He plans on using his NO2 kit for only street-type applications.

So until you actually go out there and try autocrossing your NO2 equipped 944S2, don't come here and say how wonderful NO2 is for autocross. Til then, you are just full of a bunch of (nitrous infused) hot air.

-Z-man.

PS:
1. Sorry for hijacking this thread...

2. Fishey: you've been talking about putting an NO2 system into your car for as long as I can remember - do you actually have plans in place - will your dream ever materialize?!? What's the holdup?

3. Tifo: with all that $$ you saved, maybe you could buy a nitrous kit for your 944...oh, nevermind!

volv4life

fishey has been running nitrous in his car for over 5 months now.