Semi-OT: Met an unhappy Cayenne owner at the pumps today
05-08-2005, 01:23 AM
#16
Drifting
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: St. Paul, MN (formerly San Francisco)
Posts: 2,241
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Anyone who doesn't consider the Cayenne a "real Porsche" is okay in my book. Personally I think Porsche should've created a subsidiary company and marketed it under that marquee and thus still gained access to the profit margins of the Cayenne to fund their racing programs. SUVs aren't real Porsches. Or real Volkswagens for that matter.
I'm all for Porsche selling tons of Cayennes and Boxsters; helps keep the price of the higher end cars down and keeps the company profitable, which leads to more money for R&D and the great racing technology we've come to know and love.
05-08-2005, 01:28 AM
#17
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by ckathens
The problem with this is that without the Porsche marque attached to the Cayenne, they wouldn't be selling nearly as many.
I'm all for Porsche selling tons of Cayennes and Boxsters; helps keep the price of the higher end cars down and keeps the company profitable, which leads to more money for R&D and the great racing technology we've come to know and love.
I'm all for Porsche selling tons of Cayennes and Boxsters; helps keep the price of the higher end cars down and keeps the company profitable, which leads to more money for R&D and the great racing technology we've come to know and love.
05-08-2005, 01:48 AM
#18
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In self-imposed exile.
Posts: 14,072
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
7 Posts
I haven't checked, but I'm willing to bet if you adjusted the 1970s dollar cost of the 914 to present-day dollars, it'd be a hell of a lot less than the $50K they want for a Boxster.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like them, but they have ****ty retention. They depreciate almost 50% of value in two years which is NOT good even by new car standards, and the standard warranty / extended service plan is crap compared to a lot of the other players in the industry right now (BMW in particular). IIRC Porsche is only a 50,000 mile warranty or something whereas BMW is double that - WITH an option to extend beyond.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like them, but they have ****ty retention. They depreciate almost 50% of value in two years which is NOT good even by new car standards, and the standard warranty / extended service plan is crap compared to a lot of the other players in the industry right now (BMW in particular). IIRC Porsche is only a 50,000 mile warranty or something whereas BMW is double that - WITH an option to extend beyond.
05-08-2005, 09:55 AM
#19
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alberta
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile
I haven't checked, but I'm willing to bet if you adjusted the 1970s dollar cost of the 914 to present-day dollars, it'd be a hell of a lot less than the $50K they want for a Boxster.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like them, but they have ****ty retention. They depreciate almost 50% of value in two years which is NOT good even by new car standards, and the standard warranty / extended service plan is crap compared to a lot of the other players in the industry right now (BMW in particular). IIRC Porsche is only a 50,000 mile warranty or something whereas BMW is double that - WITH an option to extend beyond.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like them, but they have ****ty retention. They depreciate almost 50% of value in two years which is NOT good even by new car standards, and the standard warranty / extended service plan is crap compared to a lot of the other players in the industry right now (BMW in particular). IIRC Porsche is only a 50,000 mile warranty or something whereas BMW is double that - WITH an option to extend beyond.
05-08-2005, 10:11 AM
#20
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In self-imposed exile.
Posts: 14,072
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
7 Posts
Well, they've done enough damage to the Marquee with the Cayenne, IMO. I get why they did it (to get cashola from all the soccer mommies and daddies out there that always wanted a "Porsche" but ended up with 2.2 kids and a suburban home instead), but at the same time I think it's damaged the marquee a lot more than it's helped it. Sure, perhaps more people recognize the name now, but do they associate it with a manufacturer of quality sports cars and race cars or with just another bland SUV manufacturer. Granted the Cayenne is a lot less "bland" of an SUV than most, but it's still an SUV - a vehicle type that's got little purpose. It's still a gas-guzzling pig of a vehicle with a high center of gravity and comparitively lower performance for the dollar. For the same as a Cayenne costs, I'll take a Carerra any day without even thinking about it! I've never liked the concept of the so-called "sport utility vehicle" anyway. What's the point? Want cargo or people-carrying capacity? Get a van or minivan! Want a 4WD vehicle? Get a truck or a jeep.
How many people that claim to "need" 4WD actually need it anyway? I spent my days growing up in snowy and icy New England mostly in lousy-handling rear-wheel drive cars. I never had an accident. Never. In fact the first wreck I had was in Florida. Not much snow or other "need" for 4WD there! Too many of these people substitute overpriced technology and "fad" incentive on these environmental time bombs for actually paying attention to their driving and developing their own skill behind the wheel.
So when do I get my 911?
How many people that claim to "need" 4WD actually need it anyway? I spent my days growing up in snowy and icy New England mostly in lousy-handling rear-wheel drive cars. I never had an accident. Never. In fact the first wreck I had was in Florida. Not much snow or other "need" for 4WD there! Too many of these people substitute overpriced technology and "fad" incentive on these environmental time bombs for actually paying attention to their driving and developing their own skill behind the wheel.
So when do I get my 911?
05-08-2005, 10:32 AM
#21
Racer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Alberta
Posts: 493
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile
Well, they've done enough damage to the Marquee with the Cayenne, IMO. I get why they did it (to get cashola from all the soccer mommies and daddies out there that always wanted a "Porsche" but ended up with 2.2 kids and a suburban home instead), but at the same time I think it's damaged the marquee a lot more than it's helped it. Sure, perhaps more people recognize the name now, but do they associate it with a manufacturer of quality sports cars and race cars or with just another bland SUV manufacturer. Granted the Cayenne is a lot less "bland" of an SUV than most, but it's still an SUV - a vehicle type that's got little purpose. It's still a gas-guzzling pig of a vehicle with a high center of gravity and comparitively lower performance for the dollar. For the same as a Cayenne costs, I'll take a Carerra any day without even thinking about it! I've never liked the concept of the so-called "sport utility vehicle" anyway. What's the point? Want cargo or people-carrying capacity? Get a van or minivan! Want a 4WD vehicle? Get a truck or a jeep.
How many people that claim to "need" 4WD actually need it anyway? I spent my days growing up in snowy and icy New England mostly in lousy-handling rear-wheel drive cars. I never had an accident. Never. In fact the first wreck I had was in Florida. Not much snow or other "need" for 4WD there! Too many of these people substitute overpriced technology and "fad" incentive on these environmental time bombs for actually paying attention to their driving and developing their own skill behind the wheel.
So when do I get my 911?
How many people that claim to "need" 4WD actually need it anyway? I spent my days growing up in snowy and icy New England mostly in lousy-handling rear-wheel drive cars. I never had an accident. Never. In fact the first wreck I had was in Florida. Not much snow or other "need" for 4WD there! Too many of these people substitute overpriced technology and "fad" incentive on these environmental time bombs for actually paying attention to their driving and developing their own skill behind the wheel.
So when do I get my 911?
05-08-2005, 01:26 PM
#23
Addict
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile
I haven't checked, but I'm willing to bet if you adjusted the 1970s dollar cost of the 914 to present-day dollars, it'd be a hell of a lot less than the $50K they want for a Boxster.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like them, but they have ****ty retention. They depreciate almost 50% of value in two years which is NOT good even by new car standards, and the standard warranty / extended service plan is crap compared to a lot of the other players in the industry right now (BMW in particular). IIRC Porsche is only a 50,000 mile warranty or something whereas BMW is double that - WITH an option to extend beyond.
Don't get me wrong, I actually like them, but they have ****ty retention. They depreciate almost 50% of value in two years which is NOT good even by new car standards, and the standard warranty / extended service plan is crap compared to a lot of the other players in the industry right now (BMW in particular). IIRC Porsche is only a 50,000 mile warranty or something whereas BMW is double that - WITH an option to extend beyond.
05-08-2005, 01:51 PM
#24
Instructor
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Colorado
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok.. being a VW mechanic I actually take offense to that. Some retard with the money to sink into a cayenne does not take it to Porsche to fix a oil burning issue? I CALL BS! He obviously needs a reality check. Overall the Cayenne is a way better vehicle than the Touareg. It has all of porshe's electronics and engine technology. Not VW's. VW's have had WAY more recalls then the Porshe's.
If he truly feels that way he should sell his for a profit and buy a stinking Touareg.. he deserves it.
If he truly feels that way he should sell his for a profit and buy a stinking Touareg.. he deserves it.
05-08-2005, 01:59 PM
#25
Race Director
Wow, so much to comment on.....
1. If you think that because Porsche makes good money on the Cayenne that it keeps the prices down for other vehicles, I've got a bridge to sell you. Basic economic and real world business says to sell at a price that maximizes your revenue (price x units). Furthermore, cost has absolutely nothing to do with price. Porsche is not stupid (other than building an SUV in the first place IMHO). They are not going to leave any money on the table when it comes to selling their cars.
2. SUVs - I'm not a big fan of them either, but we haul more crap around in our Durango than the average truck owner here in Texas. Once a week minimum the back end of that thing is full. And since my wife likes the Durango, which also serves as my tow beast, I get to drive a BMW 328i everyday as opposed to some sort of truck. Just as an aside, when the Durango is paid off I'd like to find an off-lease X5. Yum yum.
3. This guy is goofy. Beyond his attitude about what makes a Porsche a Porsche, but if he is going to rebadge his Cayenne as a VW, why the hell didn't he buy a Toureg in the first place and save a bunch of money? So if he has to buy an SUV it has to be a Porsche, but it doesn't meet his standard for a Porsche, so he buys it anyway and rebadges it a VW? Sounds like a poseur anyway.
1. If you think that because Porsche makes good money on the Cayenne that it keeps the prices down for other vehicles, I've got a bridge to sell you. Basic economic and real world business says to sell at a price that maximizes your revenue (price x units). Furthermore, cost has absolutely nothing to do with price. Porsche is not stupid (other than building an SUV in the first place IMHO). They are not going to leave any money on the table when it comes to selling their cars.
2. SUVs - I'm not a big fan of them either, but we haul more crap around in our Durango than the average truck owner here in Texas. Once a week minimum the back end of that thing is full. And since my wife likes the Durango, which also serves as my tow beast, I get to drive a BMW 328i everyday as opposed to some sort of truck. Just as an aside, when the Durango is paid off I'd like to find an off-lease X5. Yum yum.
3. This guy is goofy. Beyond his attitude about what makes a Porsche a Porsche, but if he is going to rebadge his Cayenne as a VW, why the hell didn't he buy a Toureg in the first place and save a bunch of money? So if he has to buy an SUV it has to be a Porsche, but it doesn't meet his standard for a Porsche, so he buys it anyway and rebadges it a VW? Sounds like a poseur anyway.
05-08-2005, 02:11 PM
#26
Site Sponsor
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: A great big building in the woods, FL.
Posts: 6,527
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
Have any of you ever driven one??? I drove both a Turbo and a S through an autox course last year. Even being as big as they are they handled flawlessly. Even when you pushed them WAY to hard in tight corners. The suspension setup on that thing is nothing short of amazing.
If I was going to get an SUV (and had the extra cash to spend) I would have nothing less than the C.T.
This is just from my experience driving them.
The suspension setup on that thing is nothing short of amazing. If I was going to get an SUV (and had the extra cash to spend) I would have nothing less than the C.T.
This is just from my experience driving them.
05-08-2005, 02:20 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Francisco, CA Porsche: '92 968 Blk/Cashmere
Posts: 1,699
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Porsche-O-Phile
I haven't checked, but I'm willing to bet if you adjusted the 1970s dollar cost of the 914 to present-day dollars, it'd be a hell of a lot less than the $50K they want for a Boxster.
05-08-2005, 04:23 PM
#29
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: In self-imposed exile.
Posts: 14,072
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
7 Posts
This is from The Ultimate History of Porsche:
[quote]
In 1970, the year the cars went on sale, a 1.7-liter 914 cost around $5,200, while the 914/6 was just $500 cheaper than the more powerful, and to many eyes prettier, 2.2-liter 911-T at $8,300. . .
So in 1970 dollars, the 914 is:
$5,200 / 0.24 = $21,666.67 based on $0.24 per $1.00 in 2004 dollars.
The 914/6 is $8,300 / 0.24 = $34,583.33
The 911-T is $8,800 / 0.24 = $36,666.67.
Tell me **** isn't overpriced now? Last time I looked at a 911 (about two weeks ago) the price for a basic coupe was just slightly less than DOUBLE the same car in 1970s dollars.
The '05 Boxster is MSRP-ed about $50K. This is $34,583.33 / $50,000 * 100 or 69.1% overvalued if indeed the 914/6 is comparable to the modern Boxster. Nice car, but a rip-off for the value, IMO. Want a Boxster? Buy used and let some other sucker eat the rapid depreciation. In two years you'll be able to buy a nice '05 for under $25K. Watch.
[quote]
In 1970, the year the cars went on sale, a 1.7-liter 914 cost around $5,200, while the 914/6 was just $500 cheaper than the more powerful, and to many eyes prettier, 2.2-liter 911-T at $8,300. . .
So in 1970 dollars, the 914 is:
$5,200 / 0.24 = $21,666.67 based on $0.24 per $1.00 in 2004 dollars.
The 914/6 is $8,300 / 0.24 = $34,583.33
The 911-T is $8,800 / 0.24 = $36,666.67.
Tell me **** isn't overpriced now? Last time I looked at a 911 (about two weeks ago) the price for a basic coupe was just slightly less than DOUBLE the same car in 1970s dollars.
The '05 Boxster is MSRP-ed about $50K. This is $34,583.33 / $50,000 * 100 or 69.1% overvalued if indeed the 914/6 is comparable to the modern Boxster. Nice car, but a rip-off for the value, IMO. Want a Boxster? Buy used and let some other sucker eat the rapid depreciation. In two years you'll be able to buy a nice '05 for under $25K. Watch.
05-08-2005, 06:36 PM
#30
Boxster = 944, Boxster S = 944 Turbo almost to the penny as of a few months ago. The resale values show it to be true to.
FWIW, both the Boxster and Cayenne are amazing cars. The early 2.5 Boxster were a little low on power but hella fun the drive, the S model is fantastic. The Cayenne in the Turbo is so fast it is silly and handles like a dream. If people could get over their pompous "I hate SUV" BS they would take one for a drive and realize how good a vehicle it is.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
FWIW, both the Boxster and Cayenne are amazing cars. The early 2.5 Boxster were a little low on power but hella fun the drive, the S model is fantastic. The Cayenne in the Turbo is so fast it is silly and handles like a dream. If people could get over their pompous "I hate SUV" BS they would take one for a drive and realize how good a vehicle it is.
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote