Semi-OT: Met an unhappy Cayenne owner at the pumps today
06-25-2005, 08:50 PM
#91
Race Director
"Normal enthusiasts" don't purchase new Porsches, generally. I realize there are exceptions to that, and if you are I am happy for you.
The person that is looking at a Cayenne is choosing between it and offerings from BMW, Landrover, and Mercedes. Porsche did some research and found that the majority of Porsche owners also own an SUV. So, why not have that SUV be a Porsche? I want a Cayenne too someday, once (if) my Pathfinder wears out and I can pick up a used 3-4 year old Cayenne for a good price once the original owner takes the depreciation hit.
If you think you know so much about marketing and demographics for automotive companies and what they should be offering to the masses, I suggest you search for employment at Porsche. I'm certain their fleet of analysts and marketing guys would appreciated your insight. Furthermore, if you don't like what they are doing with their money/profits, then write a letter to them. They seem to know what they are doing, compared to GM and the other car companies out there. I myself could give a flying **** what they do, as long as they do whatever it takes to stick around and be profitable, so that their parts counters are open and can supply me parts to work on my 20-year-old enthusiast's car.
Another thing to consider, the days of a lightweight, low-spec ballsy sportscars are basically over. The people with the money to spend want the latest do-dads (sat-nav, 80-speaker stereo, heated seatbelts, and butt-massagers. In addition to that, trying to get some lightweight enthusiast car (ala the 73 RS) without airbags, crumple zones, side impact beams, yaddayaddayadda.............to pass a NHTSA crash test is near impossible. Cars are heavier and more bloated because of litigious, bloated, gadget-needing Americans. The enthusiasts are scarce, and if you think the enthusiasts can support a car company.................you think wrong.
Now, again, can we close this freakin' thread? I am tired of the SUV-bashing (although the ignore feature does eliminate a lot of that issue) and the armchair quarterbacking.
The person that is looking at a Cayenne is choosing between it and offerings from BMW, Landrover, and Mercedes. Porsche did some research and found that the majority of Porsche owners also own an SUV. So, why not have that SUV be a Porsche? I want a Cayenne too someday, once (if) my Pathfinder wears out and I can pick up a used 3-4 year old Cayenne for a good price once the original owner takes the depreciation hit.
If you think you know so much about marketing and demographics for automotive companies and what they should be offering to the masses, I suggest you search for employment at Porsche. I'm certain their fleet of analysts and marketing guys would appreciated your insight. Furthermore, if you don't like what they are doing with their money/profits, then write a letter to them. They seem to know what they are doing, compared to GM and the other car companies out there. I myself could give a flying **** what they do, as long as they do whatever it takes to stick around and be profitable, so that their parts counters are open and can supply me parts to work on my 20-year-old enthusiast's car.
Another thing to consider, the days of a lightweight, low-spec ballsy sportscars are basically over. The people with the money to spend want the latest do-dads (sat-nav, 80-speaker stereo, heated seatbelts, and butt-massagers. In addition to that, trying to get some lightweight enthusiast car (ala the 73 RS) without airbags, crumple zones, side impact beams, yaddayaddayadda.............to pass a NHTSA crash test is near impossible. Cars are heavier and more bloated because of litigious, bloated, gadget-needing Americans. The enthusiasts are scarce, and if you think the enthusiasts can support a car company.................you think wrong.
Now, again, can we close this freakin' thread? I am tired of the SUV-bashing (although the ignore feature does eliminate a lot of that issue) and the armchair quarterbacking.
06-25-2005, 11:37 PM
#92
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: 4th Ring of Hades, aka Houston, TX
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Jeff, Jeff, Jeff...
Okay, you're heart's in the right place, man, but your head's gotta wake up. Yes, you are correct in that probably 50% or more of SUV owners do not need their luxo-utes. A Subie Legacy awd wagon will suffice just fine. You're dead wrong bashing just Ford and GM for playing the SUV game, though. Cuz Japan and Germany sure didn't mind getting in the game. Hell, they raised it to the point that f**king Cadillac had to make an SUV. Oh yeah, over 20% of Ford's GLOBAL sales are trucks. F- series trucks alone. I don't see how that is "spiraling towards bankruptcy", man. GM's issues have SO much more to do with the $2 BILLION dollar Fiat buy-out deal than their trucks and SUV's.
Now, I am one of those guys, like Apex, that Eric spoke about. My bud and I spend 40+ weekends on the water fishing, and along the eco-minded lines you preach, we actually save total gas by trailering the boat 10 minutes to each little back bay as opposed to running it an hour or so via the water. The other weekends are usually spend slogging around in the mud of East Texas during hunting season. Did my forefathers (Texas settlers, making me a native Texan) do it without trucks? Sure they did. Their SUV's were called "horses." Now, tell me how a mini- SUV is gonna do that job well enough? Can't tow anything more than a jet-ski, and you sure can't load 3 grown men and enough gear for a 3 day hunt in it. Oh yeah, and lots of guys who lease their hunting property usually haul their gear back at every season's end. Like ALL the gear. We're lucky, our place is in the family.
So yes, our lifestyle is only ENHANCED by an SUV, although, I prefer the "who cares if it gets dirty" factor of a pickup with all our wet wadefishing gear and muddy hunting boots and bloody kills and so on. It's my choice, you say? You're damn right it is, so that statement holds NO water, bub. I grew up hunting and fishing in this, and other great states. We took every single family vacation in Texas, which is like TWO Californias. With a family of five and a 20' bay skiff, my dad bought the FIRST SUV; a Chevy K5 Blazer. Mom used it to carpool kids and grocery shop and dad USED it on weekends. My sister, my brother, and I all learned to drive in it. All three of us wrecked it more than once. No one was killed, by the way. Or even hurt, if I remember correctly.
Wait, 4wd isn't safer in the snow/wet/snotty and all those soccer moms should just learn to drive better? Okay, THAT statement proves you're probably not married. Teach your wife to drive better??? WTF?? And you know, Apex, Matt, Geo, and others can all attest to the fact that Houston or DFW are as sprawling and paved and overdeveloped as any other major modern city. Houston is over-friggin-run with dubbed SUV's, so we KNOW what it's like to see the masses commuting in their luxo-barges knowing full well that they never "use" them properly. And I think you're right. I think the over zealous market will tank somewhat when people stop paying $45K for a cummter vehicle that gets 15mpg. So what? Let it go and go blast your car down an abandoned road...
Or does getting on the boost use too much gas? A Porsche turbo driving enviromentalist?? This is your brain; this is your brain on CALIFORNIA!
Okay, you're heart's in the right place, man, but your head's gotta wake up. Yes, you are correct in that probably 50% or more of SUV owners do not need their luxo-utes. A Subie Legacy awd wagon will suffice just fine. You're dead wrong bashing just Ford and GM for playing the SUV game, though. Cuz Japan and Germany sure didn't mind getting in the game. Hell, they raised it to the point that f**king Cadillac had to make an SUV. Oh yeah, over 20% of Ford's GLOBAL sales are trucks. F- series trucks alone. I don't see how that is "spiraling towards bankruptcy", man. GM's issues have SO much more to do with the $2 BILLION dollar Fiat buy-out deal than their trucks and SUV's.
Now, I am one of those guys, like Apex, that Eric spoke about. My bud and I spend 40+ weekends on the water fishing, and along the eco-minded lines you preach, we actually save total gas by trailering the boat 10 minutes to each little back bay as opposed to running it an hour or so via the water. The other weekends are usually spend slogging around in the mud of East Texas during hunting season. Did my forefathers (Texas settlers, making me a native Texan) do it without trucks? Sure they did. Their SUV's were called "horses." Now, tell me how a mini- SUV is gonna do that job well enough? Can't tow anything more than a jet-ski, and you sure can't load 3 grown men and enough gear for a 3 day hunt in it. Oh yeah, and lots of guys who lease their hunting property usually haul their gear back at every season's end. Like ALL the gear. We're lucky, our place is in the family.
So yes, our lifestyle is only ENHANCED by an SUV, although, I prefer the "who cares if it gets dirty" factor of a pickup with all our wet wadefishing gear and muddy hunting boots and bloody kills and so on. It's my choice, you say? You're damn right it is, so that statement holds NO water, bub. I grew up hunting and fishing in this, and other great states. We took every single family vacation in Texas, which is like TWO Californias. With a family of five and a 20' bay skiff, my dad bought the FIRST SUV; a Chevy K5 Blazer. Mom used it to carpool kids and grocery shop and dad USED it on weekends. My sister, my brother, and I all learned to drive in it. All three of us wrecked it more than once. No one was killed, by the way. Or even hurt, if I remember correctly.
Wait, 4wd isn't safer in the snow/wet/snotty and all those soccer moms should just learn to drive better? Okay, THAT statement proves you're probably not married. Teach your wife to drive better??? WTF?? And you know, Apex, Matt, Geo, and others can all attest to the fact that Houston or DFW are as sprawling and paved and overdeveloped as any other major modern city. Houston is over-friggin-run with dubbed SUV's, so we KNOW what it's like to see the masses commuting in their luxo-barges knowing full well that they never "use" them properly. And I think you're right. I think the over zealous market will tank somewhat when people stop paying $45K for a cummter vehicle that gets 15mpg. So what? Let it go and go blast your car down an abandoned road...
Or does getting on the boost use too much gas? A Porsche turbo driving enviromentalist?? This is your brain; this is your brain on CALIFORNIA!
06-26-2005, 02:36 AM
#93
POP weve been over this before... What would replace this vehicle?
Drives 60+ miles a day on country highways where gravel trains are constant
4x4 for that country highway that is normally 6+ inches snow covered after a normal storm
can pull my 40' trailer, and 20' car hauler
can get all my cabinets, drywall, countertops,dishwasher,doors,carpet,etc from Lowes home ( has been ongoing for 6+ months and delivery is like $40 minimum if you spend $200+ and you wait 2 or more days
20ish MPG (depending if I drive it or my wife)
After deciding on an SUV I then studied the SUV options to see what was safe, I wanted a Jeep Cherokee, Unsafe-possible rollover... Almost gave up, hey Blazer 4x4 has really good safety. So it is also safe for my wife and son. Who by the way Rarely talks on the phone while driving...
And about your comment on the fact your car is a better choice over a civic, cause the civic is 10X the amount your car is, lets go apples to apples here you can get an early 90's honda (mostly) anything for 3K have much less maint. costs, your fuel econ would be better (I average 28-35 with a 92 prelude S 2.2Soch) and for 3K you will have a decently clean, maintained car. So shouldnt you be driving a Honda?
Mark
Drives 60+ miles a day on country highways where gravel trains are constant
4x4 for that country highway that is normally 6+ inches snow covered after a normal storm
can pull my 40' trailer, and 20' car hauler
can get all my cabinets, drywall, countertops,dishwasher,doors,carpet,etc from Lowes home ( has been ongoing for 6+ months and delivery is like $40 minimum if you spend $200+ and you wait 2 or more days
20ish MPG (depending if I drive it or my wife)
After deciding on an SUV I then studied the SUV options to see what was safe, I wanted a Jeep Cherokee, Unsafe-possible rollover... Almost gave up, hey Blazer 4x4 has really good safety. So it is also safe for my wife and son. Who by the way Rarely talks on the phone while driving...
And about your comment on the fact your car is a better choice over a civic, cause the civic is 10X the amount your car is, lets go apples to apples here you can get an early 90's honda (mostly) anything for 3K have much less maint. costs, your fuel econ would be better (I average 28-35 with a 92 prelude S 2.2Soch) and for 3K you will have a decently clean, maintained car. So shouldnt you be driving a Honda?
Mark