Chris_924s

Where is the love fella's? John D has a LOT more to do than babysit this fracas,

It's called "Self Monitoring". Hell -I'm trying very hard. (sometimes it shows)

Oh yeah. Become a member - then bitch.

TRWright

Sean, I will not say anything regarding the amount of money ads bring in, because I can not argue with you there. HOWEVER, one of the nicest things about this forum is that there are no pop ups, banners, or even annoying google text ads. Only small ads for the sponsors of this site. Putting ads on this site would make me think twice about visiting, let alone contributing money to the community.

tomrc

Quote:
https://rennlist.com/members.htm

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomrc
OK then, how many non-paying people know about the other members benefits besides the classifieds? Maybe that portion needs to be advertised a little more. The only reason I knew about the no FS posting is from the harsh comments from the members when a non-member posted a FS.

I've seen sites with little annoying pop-up reminders that come up when you have posted or read so many posts. A sort of in your face reminder of the benefits of joining. Of course you can just close them and go on but maybe after 10 posts to the forum or 20 posts read.

I'm just trying to help out here, I'm not criticizing anyone.

Tom C
Current '79 Scirocco owner
Future '84 944 owner


OK, I looked at that but only recently, why? Because this subject has been brought up and that is the only reason. Other than that I had the notion that all I really needed from Rennlist I got for nothing anyway. I'm sure most people are the same way sad to say. I knew I was going to join once I got my 944 for real, but for now it was just research and the info is free. I'm sure other non-members feel the same, they feel everything they need from the site is free anyway so there's no rush to spend the $18 or $5 a month or whatever. $18 a year is extremely reasonable for the information and the service you get from this site. I would be willing to pay more. The problem is the old saying "why pay for the cow if you're getting the milk for free."

Again I think if the benefits are more in non-members faces the more apt they'd be to get a membership. I can't stress this enough, advertising the benefits, up until this point I have come right to the forum, (I have it bookmarked) and I read the interesting posts and I'm out of here. I have not even explored the other services this site offers or did I know of them until this thread. I'm sure I'm not alone in this practice.

Tom C
Current '79 Scirocco owner
Future '84 944 owner

Blue S2

Personally i amazed at how many people find excuses not to pay. If i receive a service, i feel its only fair to contribute my part. Anything helps.

Ok, webspace.... John's INSANELY GENEROUS amount of webspace given to members is worth way more than the $18. It has saved my butt SOOOOOOO many times! Having a reliable space on the net like this is great.

The advice received...and the parts i have received from generous members has paid my membership in savings for the next decade! I almost feel as if i don't contribute enough! (haha im sure everyone has enjoyed the late night photoshops though...)

Personally, I kinda like that we DONT have advertisers. However, like VW Vortex, advertising isnt that bad. Maybe it could work on a limited amount to help with costs.

I also feel this "level of payment" idea is just fine. WITH NO LABELS. Who would know but yourself. Anyone pressed to brag about that doesn't need to be a member. They should go elsewhere. Or better yet...maybe....

Maybe instead of doing annual payments, there can ALSO be an option of semi-annual payments. Every month is ANNOYING!!!!!!!!

Someone might be more willing to pay $9 every 6 months though. Sometimes its just easier to drop 9 than 18 at once. And the same can go for a second level of payment.

So like $18 and maybe a $30 / year fee. Both are semi-annual optional so 9 and 15 respectively every 6 months. (only 2 levels, not multiples)

Maybe the $30 year would receive the the full amount of space. And the $18 would get like only 50mb of space or something instead of 200.

I dont think limiting nonmember posts is a good idea. We are a community and we want to keep it open. I think maybe there should be a page that really highlights all membership benefits. Maybe i've missed it if there is one, but i notice a lot of people dont realize you get webspace, email, etc.. etc...

Just my 2 cents! I must say though, Rennlist has become a part of life, and for John & Jenn's hard work, its very sad to see such a small group funding the site while everyone reaps the benefits. Im not saying its wrong, i just think people need to open themselves up a little.

Maybe people would be willing to pay less, but twice a year. And maybe it can be setup automated to send a message to the person with a paypal button to make it quick and easy to pay.

my84-944

I think assumptions like this are one of the main reasons I am not yet a member. Between the last round of "I am better than you because I am a member" and the crap UDpride is saying here, I have chosen to consider not only NOT becoming a member at this time, but maybe leaving Rennlist period. I have helped a few people here and received some help too, all while NOT being a member. When I first came to the site I saw the JOIN FOR FREE button and thought sweet a place to get information and meet other Porsche 944 owners. If John wants to make this a pay only site, or limit the amount of access as suggested here limit posts, etc... Then that is his choice. But I will be damned if I let some snob punk, say You are not in my class or are too cheep to pay for the services you are using and thus attempt to make me feel like a leach. I JOINED FOR FREE, MAN, IT WAS OFFERED TO ME. IT WAS ON THE SITE, RIGHT THERE FOR ME TO CLIK ON MAN. WHEN JOHN POSTS AND SAYS I HAVE TO JOIN OR LEAVE I WILL DECIDE THEN. IF I WANT TO PAY 18.00 I WILL AND I DO NOT NEED YOU TO TELL ME OTHERWISE. Matt O if you are such an integral part of the list and such an important member that you can not only recommend making people pay more than 18.00 for a service you get for FREE, all the while saying those other members who are just registered are not paying, then why not just suggest removing the JOIN FOR FREE BUTTON? You could cut out the "riff-raff" that way right MATT and UDPride?

Maciek

Here are my thoughts

John D. and Jenn are the people who dedicate the most to this website and are responsible for its existence and maintenance. Both of them are terrific people who sacrifice alot of their time/money/energy/sanity in order for people like me to be able to use this site.

That said, I have never heard either of them make any comment about pressuring other people to become paying members. Clearly it is their choice if they want registered users to be able to post and do the like.

I find it ironic that the only people I have ever seen pressure others to become members (and I am not saying that is what this thread is, I have seen it in other posts) is by people who are not moderators or involved with the site and just users.

Why is it your problem if someone else wants to give up their time and money so generously? I think that it is a personal decision by John D. and Jenn to allow registered users to post as much as they like. If you feel that you want to help support their kindness and genorosity then become a member, and if you already are, then don't try and force your values on other people. Some people are fine not paying and using it and that is clearly the way the site is setup, so people have that choice.

Instead of having these silly disagreements about who is a member and who isn't, why don't we carry on the spirit of this site the way the creators intended it to be as a site to share our common passion and knowledge about Porsches?

Sorry for the long rant, but I have been holding that in for some time now.

pikey7

I think there's an obvious statement to make here. If John didn't want non-members around, then there would be no non-members around. As there are, I guess he does.

And that is that.

At the end of the day here, this is a web forum born out of the passion we all share for Porsches. Whether or not someone has paid an extra 18 bucks for that "privelege" (sp?) is neither here nor there. If someone wants to pay $500, then that's their perogative. I don't care.

Pack in the petty bickering and lets get back to the main program folks. Who's got a problem, suggestion, or just wants to say hi? I've almost had enough of this.

Travis - sflraver

You are out of line. Matt is only trying to suggest a way for people to donate a little more to the community that feel that it is worth it. From what I have seen, he in no way event hinted to removing the free user option from these forums.

The fact is, that it costs a lot to run this community. John will not ever insist that people pay for it, and I can tell you he was hard pressed to even offer a member option that cost a dollar amount.

The problem here is that if people don't start supporting this community with a little more than just good posts, it will one day just cease to exist.

I know personally that Matt is trying to help raise funds for Rennlist on more than just the level you see here. He is donating a HUGE chunk of his time to the cause and his efforts will become apparent in the coming weeks.

If you choose to single Matt out because of his post here, then I feel that the community would be much better off without you in it. Maybe you will see things a bit more clearly when the full extent of his recent efforts become apparent. I hope so.

And, just incase you pull some "but... site sponsor... you can't... blah" ****, I will let you know right now, I don't care. When you single out someone like Matt O., who helps this community out behind the scenes, so much more than you could ever know, you might as well spit in my face.

jp944

Here's an analogy...

Have you seen the ladies in the supermarket passing out free samples? It's a nice way of giving you a taste to see if you like it well enough to shell out some dough for it. You're welcome to help yourself. If you stand there and eat them all you may get a raised eyebrow from the lady. Other people may call you a cheapskate and say things like, "If you like it so much, why not get out your wallet and buy some?" You don't have to. You can stand there and eat the free samples until they're gone. Probably no one will throw you out of the store, but don't be surprised if you get a few remarks from folks. If you don't like catching guff over it then your problem is with the other shoppers, not with the store.

I look at Rennlist the same way. I would have never joined if it were a pay-only site. I like that I was able to register for free and take a few samples. I decided I really liked the guacamole so I bought a membership. Some people like the guacamole and don't buy a membership. John owns the store and it appears that he doesn't mind people registering for free and using the site without paying to become a member. He does withold certain services (like the OT forum which is often unfit for public consumption anyway) and the classifieds and forum 'For Sale' posts.

I suppose what I'm saying is that you shouldn't get upset and leave when people tell you that you should buy a membership because you have X number of posts. If you've got the huevos for it, then just stand there and keep eating the guacamole. It isn't that people are against you because you aren't a member. I can agree with UD that most adults can save for a few months and put two $10 bills together. If you don't want to be a member, just say that the site doesn't have enough value for you and you don't want to pay. But don't get upset if people think you're cheap just because you're getting something for nothing. People will get upset, then they'll forget about it.

As far as membership goes, it makes sense that since Rennlist provides sooooo much value to some people that they want to make sure it isn't esteemed too lightly.

my84-944

You know maybe I misunderstood their intentions here. Seems that Matt is just trying to make more money for John and keep the list going. I can respect and do appreciate that. Thank you Matt O for that. Maybe I misread the above comments. You know that after being bashed by several members with comments like, “your post says it time for a membership” and non-paying members are not members anyway, or they are too cheep to pay, we/I “non-members” are a little touchy. But I must tell you Travis that I have never spit in your, or anyone’s face. This includes Matt O and UDPride. But I think if you read the above quotes you may be able to see what I am taking about. My question to you is why it is ok for a member to slam/insult a non-member? When I said that Matt should consider what he was saying and more exclusively UDpride you insinuated that I should leave the list for what I said to Matt O. What about what they said (specifically UDPride)? Is it different because they paid 18 bucks? I hope not, I would hate to think that unless you are a member your opinion is not valid. I just do not think it is fair to make comments designed to promote elitism and or the separation of the community, while making sure that if any one who is not paying does not “cross the proverbial line”. If this community thinks it would be better off with out me than so be it, but I will state my opinion here, and I do think that saying things like they are too cheep and you are taking advantage of what I am paying for are intentional stabs and slams and need to be addressed. This is a forum, we are typing, and we can read it before we post it. Things you type are intentional. If they are not intentional, you need to read your own stuff before you submit it and use your head. I am sorry if this angers you or you choose to find the most negative thing in here and say well we are glad you are gone, but I know I will be sad to go. While it is true that I did not make this issue up, I for one would like it to go away. I am not trying to continue it, but trying to help both Matt and UdPride understand something here. You see there are lots of people who post here and not all of the information comes from “paying-members”. In fact I think this Forum has already lost some very valuable information (since this garbage started) in the loss of many non-paying folks. This will impact the non-members who stay and the paying members in the near future. The #1 resource here are the people who post here and the sad truth is the information that many of us have and will bring is going to be going away. In the sales industry this is called blowing out talent. I am sad to think it will happen here. If you think I am wrong, I am sorry. But I will respect your opinion Travis and go.
Good-bye Rennlist and good luck.

Matt O.

I do understand what you are saying. And no we don't want you to go. But Travis and I are working on some really cool things for Rennlisters (NOT JUST "MEMBERS") and things to help the site grow, and all we ever read on these threads are nay-sayer BS and "quit being mean to non-members." Well, I for one have never slammed a non-member for the sole reason of being a non-member (maybe for being a troll) or said "your post says its time for a membership" -- and those who have are out of line. However, I understand their motivation for doing so (and so should you) -- but we should also not let folks get over-zealous and come across rude to non-members. If we were all in a bar, and some smiled and said, "My 84 944, as much as you're talking it's time for you to buy the beer" you wouldn't take it personally, you'd understand they were joking, pulling your leg, whatever. But posts come across differently. However, I tried to be clear as possible in my posts but apparently no matter what motives and words will both be misunderstood on a forum.

By the way, Travis did not tell you to go. Read what he wrote. So either buck up and be part and contribute without over-generalizing all members from a few idiot members who feel the need to chasitise non-paying members, and understand that is NOT the norm, that is the stupid, unfortunate exception, or feel free to leave (if you already haven't). The choice is yours but if you understand our motivations and don't take stupid **** personally I am sure the club would be better with you then without.

This thread was started to harvest ideas on how to better increase membership dollars to support Rennlist. Thank you to the people who understood this ("paying" and "non-paying" members alike):
Helstrm
CO944
Russian Rocket
yieldsign2
WesM951
Serge944
SD Porsche Fan
Moonfan
tifosiman
pikey7
Travis-sflraver
Sean
Jason-85944
tomrc
bleucamaro
Hacker-Pschorr

However, where this thread went (the bickering about some members' attitudes towards non, and vice versa) was not my intention. So...

Mods, feel free to delete this at any time.

tifosiman

Matt, I'm sorry if my posts were not helpful. I apologize.

Regards,

T.

Matt O.

NAMISOFIT,

Don't be silly man. I couldn't remember every post when I wrote that just Blue S2's came to mind. I should have went back and re-read each one before I posted that but I didn't - my apologies. Yours are always helpful.... ESPECIALLY the ones that crack me up.

Speaking of that, seeing how off-topic this thread has gotten, it's about time for one of your patented clown posts...

EDIT:
I mispoke and edited my post above.

Bob Rouleau

Matt et al,

What a great initiative! Count me in to help. A few steps have been taken to provide more benefits to members than non. Posting FS ads, signatures and access to OT. I think that Rennlist could go a step further - avatars for example and PM space as someone suggested.

Utimately we need more paying members. John is working THREE jobs to be able to keep this service going. How long will he do that? Unless Rennlist becomes self sufficient I suspect that it will eventually fade away.

Members versus non-members - here's a different take. When asked to qualify Rennlist in few words, the most frequent descriptions are "a real community" and " a great source of technical information". The sense of community comes from people helping others. It also seems to me that the majority of the ones helping are members.

Someone said having different classes of memberships would promote 'elitism'. I agree but, to a certain degree that exists already between members and non members. This is sometimes reflected in comments like "1137 posts, have you considered becoming a member?" About half the time the response is profanity and rationalization as we've see above. "Why should I pay for a free service.. I contribute as much as the other guys.. blah blah." Of course the answer is that unless Rennlist becomes self sufficient, it is likely to fade away when John gets tired of working multiple jobs to pay for bandwidth and servers.

If it was up to me, I'd offer trial memberships - free for 90 days and then you have to decide to join for a lousy 18 bucks or not. If the number of users goes down, perhaps the costs will drop too. Somehow I think that the result would be positive, we'd lose some free-loaders but gain enough revenue to allow John to work only two jobs. We'd lose some folks for sure, but I think the majority would pay to continue to enjoy Rennlist. That would also end the "us verus them" of members versus non and perhaps enhance the community spirit which is a hallmark of this site.

Best,

Matt O.

Bob, you said it all better then I could ever. Exactly my thoughts.