Bilstein Escort Cup streetable?
#46
Originally Posted by macnewma
Is the Escort setup designed to work without torsion bars? How do the rear shocks mount? Is it spherical or rubber?
The only thing that many say need to be addressed when deleting the torsion bars is the spring plate bushings. The stock rubber ones are said to cause flex in the rear suspension without the torsion bars, and that changes the toe. Whether or not it's true is another thing. I took a careful look at the rear suspension, and the torsion bars provided no increased stiffness in the suspension in relation to the way the spring plate would flex (side to side), plus the trailing arm is also mounted to the torsion tube which triangulates the rear suspension and fixes the spring plate in place. But just to be on the safe side, and to upgrade to better bushings, I'm going to install the Elephant Racing bushings when they come out.
The Escort rear shocks mount using the stock rubber bushing. You need to press it out with a vice and then re-press it back into the Escorts. This is probably the only negative thing, to me, about the rears. I would really prefer the spherical mount like the KLA shocks have. HTH
Last edited by MaDAnT26x; 08-18-2004 at 03:03 PM.
#47
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Originally Posted by macnewma
. Is the Bilstein stuff much better than the Koni setup?
Max
Max
I run a slightly different Bilstein Cup style setup bought from the now gone Morrris Dampers. Larry probably knows more about what I have than I do. The rear shocks are spherical mount, not rubber.
#48
Well as far as the Koni struts vs. Bilstein struts go, I think that the Bilstein design is stronger because of the inverted strut. So instead of a thin rod that is exposed, which could cause more flex, it's inverted so that the strut body is exposed, which seems much stronger.
Also, the Bilstein setup is bomb proof right out of the box (either Turbo Cup or Escort), provided you have the correct spring rates, and you don't have to mess around with that adjustable bull****.
Also, the Bilstein setup is bomb proof right out of the box (either Turbo Cup or Escort), provided you have the correct spring rates, and you don't have to mess around with that adjustable bull****.
#50
If I had to do it again, I might just upgrade the torsion bars, because now that everything is setup (alignment, corner balace, ride height), there's no need to change or adjust anything. And now that I removed the torsion bar, I think I may have to upgrade the spring plate bushings.
So I recommend keeping them, and if you're having them installed for you, you won't have to re-index them, which is a PITA. Plus they are not that heavy, so it's not much weight loss. But the decision is really up to you and what you would prefer.
If you are going with 400lb front springs, then a 29-30mm torsion bar is the hot setup, FWIH.
So I recommend keeping them, and if you're having them installed for you, you won't have to re-index them, which is a PITA. Plus they are not that heavy, so it's not much weight loss. But the decision is really up to you and what you would prefer.
If you are going with 400lb front springs, then a 29-30mm torsion bar is the hot setup, FWIH.
#52
Well here are some guides to removal, without dropping the rear torsion tube:
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 1
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 2
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 3
And here is a guide to re-indexing:
Torsion Bar Indexing 101
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 1
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 2
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 3
And here is a guide to re-indexing:
Torsion Bar Indexing 101
#53
Three Wheelin'
Who is using anything other than Koni, Leda or Bilstein?
Also does anyone know the difference in 951 and 968 struts and shocks? Eshocks.com lists several options for the 951 but only rears for the 968.
Also does anyone know the difference in 951 and 968 struts and shocks? Eshocks.com lists several options for the 951 but only rears for the 968.
#54
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Originally Posted by BruceWard
Also does anyone know the difference in 951 and 968 struts and shocks?
Interchangeable springs:
- 924, 924S, 944, 944S, 951
- 944S2, 968
- 951S, 944S2 w/M030, 968 w/M030
Strut mounting is the same for all 86+ 951, 87+ 944 and 968 - so, they are all interchangeable as a whole unit.
There are only 3 rear configurations for the 924/944/968 line:
- 924, 83-85.1 944 use 12mm mounts
- 924S, 944 85.5+, 968 use 14mm mounts
- 968 M030 came with a fixed helper spring
#55
Three Wheelin'
Skip, thanks for all the info thats great.
Am I correct in interpreting that 951 shocks will fit on a 968 and than 951 struts will fit as long as the strut was fitted with a 951 spring?
Going a step further 951S shocks are fine but would 951S struts + springs be ok as well.
I am assuming that due to the higher weight of a 968 Cab the struts should be revalved.
You Paragon guys seem to love the Konis and I may be ordering a set from you this fall, if I buy Konis it will be from Paragon, but I am wondering if you have options from other vendors?
Thanks again
Am I correct in interpreting that 951 shocks will fit on a 968 and than 951 struts will fit as long as the strut was fitted with a 951 spring?
Going a step further 951S shocks are fine but would 951S struts + springs be ok as well.
I am assuming that due to the higher weight of a 968 Cab the struts should be revalved.
You Paragon guys seem to love the Konis and I may be ordering a set from you this fall, if I buy Konis it will be from Paragon, but I am wondering if you have options from other vendors?
Thanks again
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Originally Posted by BruceWard
Am I correct in interpreting that 951 shocks will fit on a 968 and than 951 struts will fit as long as the strut was fitted with a 951 spring?
Going a step further 951S shocks are fine but would 951S struts + springs be ok as well.
I am assuming that due to the higher weight of a 968 Cab the struts should be revalved.
You Paragon guys seem to love the Konis and I may be ordering a set from you this fall, if I buy Konis it will be from Paragon, but I am wondering if you have options from other vendors?
#58
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Well, eshocks.com was worthless. Here is their reply to my email asking about revalving and different uses for the Bilstein Escort and Firehawk setups:
I will probably just stick with the Koni setup I have on my shelf right now. Maybe jump to Motons when I get really fast.
Max
Max,
Please give the Motorport/Oval Track Division at Bilstein a call at 877-666-7662.
Thanks,
Paul Kollek
Please give the Motorport/Oval Track Division at Bilstein a call at 877-666-7662.
Thanks,
Paul Kollek
Max
#59
Originally Posted by Eyal 951
what is more preferable... remove the torsion bars, or upgrade em?
~Eyal
~Eyal
Next month I am meeting with a guy who does suspension for Porsche Motorsports (he's setting up my car ). I will ask him his opinion on coil-over conversions, and let you all know what he says, if anyone's interested.
#60
Race Director
I know that the 924 Carrera GTS/R cars had rear coil-overs with t-bar delete from the factory. It might be worth finding out how the top shock mounts on those were beefed up, if at all.