Madant26x

Ummm, the setup isn't necessarily "designed" to work without the torsion bars, but I'm running it that way anyway. It really isn't the shock/spring that needs to be stronger, the main focus is the trailing arm mount and top mount. But to my knowledge, plenty of people run the rears without torsion bars without any problems. FYI, The Escort Cup cars ran the rears with the torsion bars in, just dialed down so they had no effectiveness.

The only thing that many say need to be addressed when deleting the torsion bars is the spring plate bushings. The stock rubber ones are said to cause flex in the rear suspension without the torsion bars, and that changes the toe. Whether or not it's true is another thing. I took a careful look at the rear suspension, and the torsion bars provided no increased stiffness in the suspension in relation to the way the spring plate would flex (side to side), plus the trailing arm is also mounted to the torsion tube which triangulates the rear suspension and fixes the spring plate in place. But just to be on the safe side, and to upgrade to better bushings, I'm going to install the Elephant Racing bushings when they come out.

The Escort rear shocks mount using the stock rubber bushing. You need to press it out with a vice and then re-press it back into the Escorts. This is probably the only negative thing, to me, about the rears. I would really prefer the spherical mount like the KLA shocks have. HTH

Mike Buck

I'm following Porsches' lead. They put Koni's on the street 944's. They put Bilsteins on the Turbo Cup 944's. Maybe that was just a marketing decision and/or coincidence, but maybe it implies something about the relative performance for the given application

I run a slightly different Bilstein Cup style setup bought from the now gone Morrris Dampers. Larry probably knows more about what I have than I do. The rear shocks are spherical mount, not rubber.

Madant26x

Well as far as the Koni struts vs. Bilstein struts go, I think that the Bilstein design is stronger because of the inverted strut. So instead of a thin rod that is exposed, which could cause more flex, it's inverted so that the strut body is exposed, which seems much stronger.

Also, the Bilstein setup is bomb proof right out of the box (either Turbo Cup or Escort), provided you have the correct spring rates, and you don't have to mess around with that adjustable bull****.

Eyal 951

what is more preferable... remove the torsion bars, or upgrade em?
~Eyal

Madant26x

If I had to do it again, I might just upgrade the torsion bars, because now that everything is setup (alignment, corner balace, ride height), there's no need to change or adjust anything. And now that I removed the torsion bar, I think I may have to upgrade the spring plate bushings.

So I recommend keeping them, and if you're having them installed for you, you won't have to re-index them, which is a PITA. Plus they are not that heavy, so it's not much weight loss. But the decision is really up to you and what you would prefer.

If you are going with 400lb front springs, then a 29-30mm torsion bar is the hot setup, FWIH.

Eyal 951

I'll be doing the install myself... though I don;t know how I'll do the torsion bars yet...
~Eyal

Madant26x

Well here are some guides to removal, without dropping the rear torsion tube:
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 1
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 2
How to: Spring plate bushing replacement, part 3

And here is a guide to re-indexing:
Torsion Bar Indexing 101

BruceWard

Who is using anything other than Koni, Leda or Bilstein?

Also does anyone know the difference in 951 and 968 struts and shocks? Eshocks.com lists several options for the 951 but only rears for the 968.

Skip

Struts are different, shocks are the same. Non-sport struts use a smaller ID spring on the 968/S2 than the 944/951. 951S and 968 M030 struts are the same.

Interchangeable springs:
- 924, 924S, 944, 944S, 951
- 944S2, 968
- 951S, 944S2 w/M030, 968 w/M030

Strut mounting is the same for all 86+ 951, 87+ 944 and 968 - so, they are all interchangeable as a whole unit.

There are only 3 rear configurations for the 924/944/968 line:
- 924, 83-85.1 944 use 12mm mounts
- 924S, 944 85.5+, 968 use 14mm mounts
- 968 M030 came with a fixed helper spring

BruceWard

Skip, thanks for all the info thats great.

Am I correct in interpreting that 951 shocks will fit on a 968 and than 951 struts will fit as long as the strut was fitted with a 951 spring?

Going a step further 951S shocks are fine but would 951S struts + springs be ok as well.

I am assuming that due to the higher weight of a 968 Cab the struts should be revalved.

You Paragon guys seem to love the Konis and I may be ordering a set from you this fall, if I buy Konis it will be from Paragon, but I am wondering if you have options from other vendors?

Thanks again

Skip

Yes, 951 shocks fit the 968. Yes, the 951 strut will fit the 968 with the spring and hat included. FWIW, the reason the 944S2 and 968 (and 89+ 951) went with smaller springs was to properly clear the wheels (specifically, the 7.5" option). If you plan on increasing the front wheel width (9+" will fit), then you do not want the larger springs. The more popular deal is to simply add the adjustable ride height kit to any original strut (more info on that available if you are unfamiliar).

Yes, 951S struts with all the hardware (strut, sleeve, perch, spring, hat) will bolt right in.

The valving on Konis is adjustable and certainly up to taming the "gravity challenged" cabriolet. No need for revalve.

No, there is no other but Koni J/k Yes, we do also carry the Bilsteins - they just haven't made it to the site yet.

Eyal 951

Escort cup? go on....
~Eyal

macnewma

Well, eshocks.com was worthless. Here is their reply to my email asking about revalving and different uses for the Bilstein Escort and Firehawk setups:

I will probably just stick with the Koni setup I have on my shelf right now. Maybe jump to Motons when I get really fast.

Max

Blau951

I have chosen to upgrade them. If Porsche had meant for the car to use coil-overs in the rear, they wouldn't have torsion bars. Was the chasis designed to support the loading at the coil-over mounting points? I don't know, but I doubt it. Some people have switched over without problems. Those who are serious about racing install integral cages with support at the mount points. If you are building a street car intended for occasional track fun, however, I think torsion bars are the only option.

Next month I am meeting with a guy who does suspension for Porsche Motorsports (he's setting up my car ). I will ask him his opinion on coil-over conversions, and let you all know what he says, if anyone's interested.

tifosiman

I know that the 924 Carrera GTS/R cars had rear coil-overs with t-bar delete from the factory. It might be worth finding out how the top shock mounts on those were beefed up, if at all.