The Baron

As most on this site know, I recently posted for sale on this forum a red '79 Turbo#1115(09.24.13) which by most opinions was very clean. So clean in fact that a less ethical person could have very easily represented it with far less mileage.

The odometer showed 7855 miles (photo in .09.24.13 thread) but the original 85MPH (stupid Jimmy Carter )speedometer had 19359 miles when replaced with a ROW 160MPH speedometer by the second owner. When I purchased the car in 2009, the OE 85MPH speedometer was included in the replacement speedo box along with the dated work order showing when it had been replaced with the 160 MPH unit.

In September, several perspective buyers came to look at the car and truly believed the cars condition to reflect the 7855 miles showing on the 160 MPH odometer. Only after the accolades and would I show the OE 85MPH speedo, replacement box and work order which only left them more complimentary of the impeccable condition ..... shrewd marketing if I do say so .......and the car sold quickly because of condition, ownership history, records and documented mileage.

As the decades pass, fewer people remember that many of the later U.S. '79 Porsche models (including the Turbo) came with 85MPH speedos as Porsche was transitioning to meet the new socialist law. Many US owners understandably hated the 85 MPH speedo and changed them out, some later than others.

If my memory serves, the 85MPH speedo continued through the '81 model year (maybe someone else can clarify this).

I point this out because it seems that many '79 Turbos for sale lately seem to all be touted as "low mileage" yet they don't have the provenance or records to back up these claims.

Example on ebay;

'79 #0787 300 KPH odometer - ad states 66,900 miles ...... how the hell can a US Vin # car have a 300KPH speedo with "Correct mileage" ? ! !?! !?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Porsche-930-...US_Cars_Trucks

Remember ...........BUYER BEWARE !

K964

Thanks for pointing this out. I had an '81 SC that utilized an 85 mph speedometer. Not sure when they were finally changed over.

jay72

The 85 mph speedo went up until part of 1983. The lowest vin 1979 that I have seen with one is in the 600's. I remember seeing a 1979 930 at a reputable Porsche dealer with a 160 mph speedo that did not come out until 1983. The car had no documentation of a swap and the dealer was advertising it as actual miles. The dealer didnt even know about the speedometer. Some years ago I looked at a very nice '79 that had a high vin that would have most certainly came with a 85. The car had a 150mph with no documentation of swap. The car was nice but with no documentation and a premium price i passed.

There is one floating around now with a 180 mph speedo with no documentaion of a swap and was being offered as original miles.

BrandonH

Porsche speedometers up until at least the 993s, the newest with which I have personal experience, come apart very easily, and resetting the odo is very simple. Anyone who trusts an odometer reading without corroborating documents is engaging in wishful thinking and/or is very gullible.

TT Surgeon

Funny, I called that eBay seller about just that issue, he said the cars been sold to a wholesale dealer 45k. Okaaay

The Baron

If this Turbo was truly sold to a "wholesaler" then one needs to ask why (as of this posting)it is still for sale on ebay with over 4 days left !

Maybe Jim Lyons (owner of the Sports Car Comapny) has suddenly figured out that you can't run form the internet !

We should start using this thread to post links to dubious speedo cars that we come across on the internet

9Eleven

I hear vin numbers ending from 818 to 1200 all had 85 mph speedometers.

jay72

There was a book that said that. I dont believe that is 100% accurate. I have seen vins lower than 818 with 85 mph. There was a car sold by Canepa that used to belong to a guy in the LA area that was in the low 600 vin that had a 85 mph that was converted to 160.

The Baron

I agree...... either #0419 or #0479 (both are Tobacco Brown) has an OE 85MPH speedo ....... not sure which chassis but one of'em does !

UberXY

I bought my 930 from Jim. Arrived as advertised, dyno'd at 320 RWHP right off the truck on CIS. Runs great, looks great, fair price.

idart930

On September 1, 1979, NHTSA required speedometers to have special emphasis on the number 55 and a maximum speed of 85 mph (137 km/h). U.S. 930’s built from September to November 1979 were equipped with 85mph speedometers (VINs 9309800817 to 9309801200). The U.S. law was outlined in a hardcore NHTSA regulation that was repealed in March of 1982 (after President Reagan took office).

The 85mph speedo (R&R'd with a 180mph unit, documented on service record) for my late ’79 930 (1164) has a VDO build date of 11/79 (same as the chassis number decal build date – 11/79, see attached). 930’s built in Sep/Oct ’79 should have similar VDO 85mph speedo build dates. Chassis numbers earlier than 817 should have 150mph speedos unless the chassis number was built out of sequence (e.g., confirmed with a VIN decal out of sequence in the production run - if 0419 or #0479 have 85mph speedos, then they should have at least a 9/79 VIN decal build date).

I agree with BrandonH in that we should be concerned with a lot more 930 speedos than just the 384 930’s built in the 1980 (continue 1979 U.S. series). The speedos can be removed in just a few minutes and it does not take much more to disassemble and tamper with mileage. Caveat emptor for any 930 speedometer unless the car comes with bullet proof service records.

jay72

Here is chassis number 609 after 85 mph speedo was converted to 160:

http://www.canepa.com/inventory/coll...rbo/index.html

idart930

Bummer, no VIN decal shot but perhaps this car was made in 9/79? Interesting as it has snorkel headlight washers but the later-style Blaupunkt radio *****. Also updated with H-4's vs. sugar scoops.

jay72

Rich,

The interesting thing is that the vin would have to be way out of sequence from 609 to 818. Another interesting thing is that, like you said, it has the snorkel headlight washer's that would have been switched to the smaller ones by then.

Interestingly the chassis one before 609 came up at Amelia island a few years ago. It had around 17k on it and had adjustable headlight bezels and smaller headlight washers. I am not sure if it had the 85mph. Unless there was body work, these are changes that supposedly came later in production.

I think all these things are important to point out because myself, you, Baron and some others pay attention to these details that a lot of people do not. Here is an image of chassis 608:

jwasbury

Interesting discussion. My '79 is an earlier VIN, with a November '78 build date (IIRC). The PO bought the car off eBay, and had print outs of the eBay pages, where there were comments from bidders/watchers that the speedo was not correct and the car should have an 85mph unit. I suppose that the speedo could in fact be original according to what I read in this thread.