9m 1972 911S repair & restoration - back to original or not?
#31
Thanks for sharing all of this fantastic craftsmanship with us. Very informative.
One thing that you may have not noticed is that the replacement gas tank support is a superseded shape and different from the original on the LH side of the car. I ran into this and had to do quite a lot of metalwork to make it correct. As nice as the car is going to be (and as valuable at the end of the day), the owner should spend the extra $$ to have you correct that bit.
Since you asked opinions... The ST look is terrific, but would be a mistake unless he is willing to commit all the way in every correct detail to make it a true ST replica. (even then I question the idea) ST is the hot fad right now, but I think that the original narrow look is always cool and will always bring the most money on a numbers matching S if he ever decides to sell.
Subscribing as this should be a fantastic build!
One thing that you may have not noticed is that the replacement gas tank support is a superseded shape and different from the original on the LH side of the car. I ran into this and had to do quite a lot of metalwork to make it correct. As nice as the car is going to be (and as valuable at the end of the day), the owner should spend the extra $$ to have you correct that bit.
Since you asked opinions... The ST look is terrific, but would be a mistake unless he is willing to commit all the way in every correct detail to make it a true ST replica. (even then I question the idea) ST is the hot fad right now, but I think that the original narrow look is always cool and will always bring the most money on a numbers matching S if he ever decides to sell.
Subscribing as this should be a fantastic build!
#32
Addict
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
Thanks for your input boys. I think you pretty much concur with my own thoughts regarding the colour and the body, it would be a brave guy who would now chose sepia brown over blood orange, leaf green, pastel blue or GP white. I suppose that you also have to consider that if you spend £50k having a car restored for it to end up perfect but in a colour and spec that you do not want, what's the point?
That said, my customer has another early 911 that he can build as an ST replica, but I guess that once the final bill comes in for this job I doubt he will have the funds to do another one!
That said, my customer has another early 911 that he can build as an ST replica, but I guess that once the final bill comes in for this job I doubt he will have the funds to do another one!
#33
Rennlist Member
Only 50K in "your" money? Amazing how that isn't that much, given the level of reconstruction, hmm?
Funny how I mentioned this car to a friend ('72T-into-RS with more RS parts than most real RS have, including a real RS engine....but we did it over 20 years ago when all the stuff was around for the taking), and we came up with 75K+ in "our" money.
Again, glad the underlying prices support keeping these old soldiers alive. I know my zero rust '73.5T faux RS would be kicked to the curb with even 20% of what's going on with this car.
Funny how I mentioned this car to a friend ('72T-into-RS with more RS parts than most real RS have, including a real RS engine....but we did it over 20 years ago when all the stuff was around for the taking), and we came up with 75K+ in "our" money.
Again, glad the underlying prices support keeping these old soldiers alive. I know my zero rust '73.5T faux RS would be kicked to the curb with even 20% of what's going on with this car.
#34
Addict
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
The right side quarter panel has now been fully welded before Owen's attention turned to the left hand side of the shell. Note the fit of the door to the quarter.....
#35
I would honestly go back to the original Sepia brown. In fact Sepia is becoming REALLY popular again. For the amazing efforts that has been done to this car, it would only be fair to bring her back to exactly like original again!
On a side note, does it have it's original #'s matching MFI 2.4S engine?
On a side note, does it have it's original #'s matching MFI 2.4S engine?
#36
Addict
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
So, the observant might have already noticed that the left hand quarter panel is finished in green-grey whereas the right panels is black? The simple reason for this is that the right panel is a new-old-stock piece that we located and had put to one side for the job whereas the left hand side panel is a new GRV panel direct from Porsche.
The big difference that we have found with the new black GRV pressings (the part number of new panels ends in .GRV) is that they seem not to be made anywhere near as well as the original panels. To fit the panel you have to start at the back end of the shell and work from the quarterlight aperture, so there is precious little adjustment that you can make once this is aligned. However when this panel was aligned to the engine lid and quarterlight aperture we had an excessive gap between the door edge and the quarter where it welds to the B-post. The only option you have to rectify this alignment is to weld the B-post onto the shell, drill the spotwelds between the quarter panel skin and the B-post then rework the quarter panel skin to fit the door correctly.
The big difference that we have found with the new black GRV pressings (the part number of new panels ends in .GRV) is that they seem not to be made anywhere near as well as the original panels. To fit the panel you have to start at the back end of the shell and work from the quarterlight aperture, so there is precious little adjustment that you can make once this is aligned. However when this panel was aligned to the engine lid and quarterlight aperture we had an excessive gap between the door edge and the quarter where it welds to the B-post. The only option you have to rectify this alignment is to weld the B-post onto the shell, drill the spotwelds between the quarter panel skin and the B-post then rework the quarter panel skin to fit the door correctly.
#37
Addict
#38
Rennlist Member
You guys are magicians. The little I've done with bodywork--flare welding, fender fitting, door alignment, etc. can bring back nightmares 20+ years later.
#39
Racer
Hi . I'm the owner of this car for the past 24 yrs. It was never Sepia Brown in my time, I think the owner before me painted it Red. I campaigned the car in the Porsche Club Race Series in UK, in the Irish Porsche Open and in numerous Ralliies. It won the Post Historic Section of thei inaugural Historic Killarney Rally in 1996. Altogether, I've done over 100 events in it so I consider it has a compeion history that would disappear if we went narrow/sepia. Here s two photos of it at Brands Hatch in 1990 and on the Cork 20 Rally .
Last edited by major dad; 12-09-2012 at 08:56 PM. Reason: spelling
#41
panel welds
Tell us more about those panel alignment clamps if you don't mind. They look to do a great job as opposed to a lap joint. Having an aluminum or copper backer plate spanning behind that gap would be the trick for the final stitching.
Ken
Ken
#42
Addict
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
Nothing to say really, picture tells a thousand words:
#43
Addict
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Rennlist
Site Sponsor
Thread Starter
Left quarter panel now fully welded, sills fully welded to A-post, now time to weld on the left hand wing mount before coming off the jig.
#44
Great work! What are your plans to finish and protect the back side of the rear quarter panel where it was welded? That area is very high in the wheel well and difficult to access...=...easy for rust to form. I'm doing the same thing on a 67S so I'm curious to hear your plans.
Thanks for the photo tutorial!
Thanks for the photo tutorial!