BEWARE OF JOE AT GERMAN AUTO DISMANTLER
02-06-2009, 04:14 PM
#62
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Good points all
..er hold on there ...... this is a TECHNICAL forum , who is in the wrong place ? the ridculous bandwidth wasters or the guys who want to keep it technical ?
When i tune in to the Sports Chaannel ( I pay for ) I want to see sports, not political pointless meanderings. and I should get what i want without changing the channel.
Can someone just get this train wreck of a soapbox thread closed so we can get back to talking about some car stuff?
When i tune in to the Sports Chaannel ( I pay for ) I want to see sports, not political pointless meanderings. and I should get what i want without changing the channel.
Can someone just get this train wreck of a soapbox thread closed so we can get back to talking about some car stuff?
rb,
You sound like you are used to one-way conversations. You want to hammer your point, but don't actually think about what others have said to you. I was trying to give you a better perspective as to why Wayne was doing what he was doing. I was trying to help you, in other words. Hey, you are entitled to your opinion, so if you want to rant and not have a discussion, then fine. But you won't persuade anyone that way.
As far as RLOT being "negative", it is nothing compared to the negativity in PPOT. I also found that a lot of the posters on Renn are far and away more thoughtful and even cerebral than the PP guys. Truth be told, there are about a half dozen guys on PP that I simply can't stand and don't care to know.
Brad, There are other parts vendors that will sell you dealer items at a substantial discount. I found that World Pac is much cheaper than anywhere, and you can get factory Bosch stuff there. What you are paying for when you buy from Pelican is convenience. Hands down it is the most convenient if you know what you are going to buy. If you need tech help, then not so much. If you need tech help and want to buy Porsche stuff, then try Gabe at Strasse.
You sound like you are used to one-way conversations. You want to hammer your point, but don't actually think about what others have said to you. I was trying to give you a better perspective as to why Wayne was doing what he was doing. I was trying to help you, in other words. Hey, you are entitled to your opinion, so if you want to rant and not have a discussion, then fine. But you won't persuade anyone that way.
As far as RLOT being "negative", it is nothing compared to the negativity in PPOT. I also found that a lot of the posters on Renn are far and away more thoughtful and even cerebral than the PP guys. Truth be told, there are about a half dozen guys on PP that I simply can't stand and don't care to know.
Brad, There are other parts vendors that will sell you dealer items at a substantial discount. I found that World Pac is much cheaper than anywhere, and you can get factory Bosch stuff there. What you are paying for when you buy from Pelican is convenience. Hands down it is the most convenient if you know what you are going to buy. If you need tech help, then not so much. If you need tech help and want to buy Porsche stuff, then try Gabe at Strasse.
Rennlist seems to have more newer and liquid cooled car owners so if/when I get my dream 993 (newer) or a 951 or a 928 (liquid cooled) I think I'll find myself on Rennlist more for the technical stuff.
BTW, thanks for the tip on Gabe at Strasse. And isn't WorldPAC wholesale only?
02-06-2009, 04:33 PM
#63
Rennlist Member
Firstly, I can never pass up the opp to apply a RUSH lyric that would (at least, for me) apply to related contents above:
Half The World
Music by Lee and Lifeson / Lyrics by Peart
Half the world hates
What half the world does every day
Half the world waits
While half gets on with it anyway
Half the world lives
Half the world makes
Half the world gives
While the other half takes
Half the world is
Half the world was
Half the world thinks
While the other half does
Half the world talks
With half a mind on what they say
Half the world walks
With half a mind to run away
Half the world lies
Half the world learns
Half the world flies
As half the world turns
Half the world cries
Half the world laughs
Half the world tries
To be the other half
Half of us divided
Like a torn-up photograph
Half of us are trying
To reach the other half
Half the world cares
While half the world is wasting the day
Half the world shares
While half the world is stealing away
Wayne does have legal concerns to remain aware of...hopefully (and surely), he'll have a policy in place to delete threads containing potential legal consequences (or at least HASSLES [[[[[$$$$$$]]]]]]]] ) Of course, I would defer to an attorney as to how one protects his own business from such content. This "policy" would allow for assessment/deletion within 24-48 hours? Any Pelican student here @ Pelican University pretty much checks the board daily (not always, but the early bird gets the worm),..info consumed (usually, before (appropriate) deletion.
Torn:
I surely would want to know of this bad business practice (somehow), yet agree with Wayne as to concerns for his OWN business "housing" these potential legal issues......the economy's softness is (for sure) something that will impact his awareness of efficiencies.....
It is of no one's concern as to what potential margins he operates at, nor what cars he would own (WTF? RU kidding me.......? How immature...) You can easily buy from whomever you wish. You may read whatever you wish,......from wherever you wish,...but remember that Wayne owns this space,.....and please take notice of this boards' power as to providing valuable information....The money I've saved alone just in "knowledge" had from this Pelican group is mine.....didn't send it to Wayne (but thank him for providing forum to learn and save).
I'll continue to spend my money with such a gent,..and respect his concern for legal matters. I want to be able to get that "widget".......
......speak now,...for soon, this thread shall die.
Best to all (nonetheless),
Doyle
Half The World
Music by Lee and Lifeson / Lyrics by Peart
Half the world hates
What half the world does every day
Half the world waits
While half gets on with it anyway
Half the world lives
Half the world makes
Half the world gives
While the other half takes
Half the world is
Half the world was
Half the world thinks
While the other half does
Half the world talks
With half a mind on what they say
Half the world walks
With half a mind to run away
Half the world lies
Half the world learns
Half the world flies
As half the world turns
Half the world cries
Half the world laughs
Half the world tries
To be the other half
Half of us divided
Like a torn-up photograph
Half of us are trying
To reach the other half
Half the world cares
While half the world is wasting the day
Half the world shares
While half the world is stealing away
Wayne does have legal concerns to remain aware of...hopefully (and surely), he'll have a policy in place to delete threads containing potential legal consequences (or at least HASSLES [[[[[$$$$$$]]]]]]]] ) Of course, I would defer to an attorney as to how one protects his own business from such content. This "policy" would allow for assessment/deletion within 24-48 hours? Any Pelican student here @ Pelican University pretty much checks the board daily (not always, but the early bird gets the worm),..info consumed (usually, before (appropriate) deletion.
Torn:
I surely would want to know of this bad business practice (somehow), yet agree with Wayne as to concerns for his OWN business "housing" these potential legal issues......the economy's softness is (for sure) something that will impact his awareness of efficiencies.....
It is of no one's concern as to what potential margins he operates at, nor what cars he would own (WTF? RU kidding me.......? How immature...) You can easily buy from whomever you wish. You may read whatever you wish,......from wherever you wish,...but remember that Wayne owns this space,.....and please take notice of this boards' power as to providing valuable information....The money I've saved alone just in "knowledge" had from this Pelican group is mine.....didn't send it to Wayne (but thank him for providing forum to learn and save).
I'll continue to spend my money with such a gent,..and respect his concern for legal matters. I want to be able to get that "widget".......
......speak now,...for soon, this thread shall die.
Best to all (nonetheless),
Doyle
Last edited by dshepp806; 02-06-2009 at 04:37 PM. Reason: spelling
02-06-2009, 05:52 PM
#64
Hi,
I was directed to this, and forgive me for participation in such a thread (as well as beating the proverbal dead horse), but I thought it might add some context to Pelican Parts stance in such instances.
I state this not as the owner of Rennlist (nor an indication of how rennlist operates), or even as an employee of Internet Brands, but more specifically as a person who is quite intimately familiar with message boards, and the legal "fragility" surrounding them.
I have to say that I can whole heartedly empathize with PP undertaking such an approach when any legal issues come up, from a business stand point it makes little sense to open ones-self up to potential litigation when it is not required.
Participating on a message board means that you own all intellectual content, but by posting it, you give licence to the owner of that message board to utilize that content on your behalf. That owner can (at any point in time) both reject that content on an individual basis, or reject all content from an individual as they see fit. The potential of having to undertake legal proceedings as the result of some content I would see as a more than reasonable reason to reject that content. (again, not stating that rennlist would do the same thing in a similar circumstance, but more specifically empathizing for someone in that situation)
If you don't like their policy in such an instance, you are more than welcome to vote with your feet (as Wayne suggested) and place such reviews/content elsewhere.
I might add, I think it is entirely irrelvant to the fact that one might drive an expensive car, that is more an indication that one has been fortunate (and dedicated) enough to see some form of success.
All the best,
Adrian
I was directed to this, and forgive me for participation in such a thread (as well as beating the proverbal dead horse), but I thought it might add some context to Pelican Parts stance in such instances.
I state this not as the owner of Rennlist (nor an indication of how rennlist operates), or even as an employee of Internet Brands, but more specifically as a person who is quite intimately familiar with message boards, and the legal "fragility" surrounding them.
I have to say that I can whole heartedly empathize with PP undertaking such an approach when any legal issues come up, from a business stand point it makes little sense to open ones-self up to potential litigation when it is not required.
Participating on a message board means that you own all intellectual content, but by posting it, you give licence to the owner of that message board to utilize that content on your behalf. That owner can (at any point in time) both reject that content on an individual basis, or reject all content from an individual as they see fit. The potential of having to undertake legal proceedings as the result of some content I would see as a more than reasonable reason to reject that content. (again, not stating that rennlist would do the same thing in a similar circumstance, but more specifically empathizing for someone in that situation)
If you don't like their policy in such an instance, you are more than welcome to vote with your feet (as Wayne suggested) and place such reviews/content elsewhere.
I might add, I think it is entirely irrelvant to the fact that one might drive an expensive car, that is more an indication that one has been fortunate (and dedicated) enough to see some form of success.
All the best,
Adrian
02-06-2009, 06:12 PM
#66
Team Owner
[QUOTE=rbuswell;6258317]Hey Ice, so you say that any thread that doesn't interest you doesn't deserve the light of day? Yes this is a technical forum but to get the word out about a bad player in 915s, the rest of Rennlist won't help. You made a post at the very beginning (#2) about GD being a bad player. Where did you find out? Was it here or somewhere else? And why didn't you complain about it not belong here in post #2? The bottom line is Erik didn't know about GD and it cost him a couple large.
touche !
touche !
02-06-2009, 10:50 PM
#67
"And isn't WorldPAC wholesale only?"
When one's business model sells with little value-added other than price,
those that provide the drop-ships with complete customer mailing lists will
one day sell retail and "capture" the 20-30% gross themselves, i.e. maybe
sooner than one thinks given the economy. They are already taking credit
card wholesale business and have on-line catalog and ordering systems.
"There are better 911 technical threads IMHO on PP than here."
Really, and what's this based upon, i.e. the so-called know-it-alls who
generally provide the majority of the technically incorrect posts? Or is it
based on the usual "thick-headed' ones that fail to accept nor understand
simple basic concepts and rely on what was posted on the internet and
then paraphrase it?
Bottom line: Rennlist is levels above the amatuerish nature of the "dark side"
forum!
When one's business model sells with little value-added other than price,
those that provide the drop-ships with complete customer mailing lists will
one day sell retail and "capture" the 20-30% gross themselves, i.e. maybe
sooner than one thinks given the economy. They are already taking credit
card wholesale business and have on-line catalog and ordering systems.
"There are better 911 technical threads IMHO on PP than here."
Really, and what's this based upon, i.e. the so-called know-it-alls who
generally provide the majority of the technically incorrect posts? Or is it
based on the usual "thick-headed' ones that fail to accept nor understand
simple basic concepts and rely on what was posted on the internet and
then paraphrase it?
Bottom line: Rennlist is levels above the amatuerish nature of the "dark side"
forum!
02-06-2009, 11:18 PM
#68
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Thanks for the BBS perspective
Hi,
I was directed to this, and forgive me for participation in such a thread (as well as beating the proverbal dead horse), but I thought it might add some context to Pelican Parts stance in such instances.
I state this not as the owner of Rennlist (nor an indication of how rennlist operates), or even as an employee of Internet Brands, but more specifically as a person who is quite intimately familiar with message boards, and the legal "fragility" surrounding them.
I have to say that I can whole heartedly empathize with PP undertaking such an approach when any legal issues come up, from a business stand point it makes little sense to open ones-self up to potential litigation when it is not required.
Participating on a message board means that you own all intellectual content, but by posting it, you give licence to the owner of that message board to utilize that content on your behalf. That owner can (at any point in time) both reject that content on an individual basis, or reject all content from an individual as they see fit. The potential of having to undertake legal proceedings as the result of some content I would see as a more than reasonable reason to reject that content. (again, not stating that rennlist would do the same thing in a similar circumstance, but more specifically empathizing for someone in that situation)
If you don't like their policy in such an instance, you are more than welcome to vote with your feet (as Wayne suggested) and place such reviews/content elsewhere.
I might add, I think it is entirely irrelvant to the fact that one might drive an expensive car, that is more an indication that one has been fortunate (and dedicated) enough to see some form of success.
All the best,
Adrian
I was directed to this, and forgive me for participation in such a thread (as well as beating the proverbal dead horse), but I thought it might add some context to Pelican Parts stance in such instances.
I state this not as the owner of Rennlist (nor an indication of how rennlist operates), or even as an employee of Internet Brands, but more specifically as a person who is quite intimately familiar with message boards, and the legal "fragility" surrounding them.
I have to say that I can whole heartedly empathize with PP undertaking such an approach when any legal issues come up, from a business stand point it makes little sense to open ones-self up to potential litigation when it is not required.
Participating on a message board means that you own all intellectual content, but by posting it, you give licence to the owner of that message board to utilize that content on your behalf. That owner can (at any point in time) both reject that content on an individual basis, or reject all content from an individual as they see fit. The potential of having to undertake legal proceedings as the result of some content I would see as a more than reasonable reason to reject that content. (again, not stating that rennlist would do the same thing in a similar circumstance, but more specifically empathizing for someone in that situation)
If you don't like their policy in such an instance, you are more than welcome to vote with your feet (as Wayne suggested) and place such reviews/content elsewhere.
I might add, I think it is entirely irrelvant to the fact that one might drive an expensive car, that is more an indication that one has been fortunate (and dedicated) enough to see some form of success.
All the best,
Adrian
I certainly see your point and the license you and Wayne hold to censor in the best interests of your respective BBS forums and businesses. You do run businesses and profits are important especially in these tough times. But as I've argued on this thread and on the sister thread on Pelican Parts, German Dismantlers need but to make good on their promise to pay Erik @ Carquip for services rendered and this thread and the sister thread on Wayne's, becomes history. A copy of the invoice and the cancelled check, front and back should do.
As for Wayne's or Internet Brands legal risk, I think both your lawyer and Wayne's if he chose to seek counsel would first ask, "Does the complaintant have a leg to stand on? Has there in fact been libel/slander against him and can he prove it." Any first year law student knows that the subject statement has to be untrue for a libel and/or slander lawsuit to stand up in court. The truth is the ultimate defense. If you were approached by Cogbill as Wayne claims he has, the first question should be, "Where's the proof? I'll remove the thread and issue you a corporate apology as soon as I receive it. If you don't have proof, go ahead and sue me. And while you're at it, why don't you go pound sand. I trust people like Erik more than I trust you."
Cogbill is a bully and he should be stopped. Wayne blinked and Erik and who knows how many others will get taken by this guy. These forums have a greater purpose than to earn their sponsors well deserved fees and margins on car parts. They act as a way for us lowly Porsche owners to enjoy our cars and not get taken by the bad players. If you can't be on our side, then who's side are you on?
02-06-2009, 11:29 PM
#69
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Houston, TX
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I think we have read enough on this topic... If Erik wants his funds... he can file a lawsuit in small claims court... having five pages of posts... on a technical forum.. on a non-technical topic.. serves no purpose. It was enough of a warning after the initial post of warning and the few "supportive" posts sympathizing with his position. This is meaningless banter at this point... unless you are Erik's lawyer.. you have nothing to gain by taking the bandwidth. Cant we just put this to rest? 
02-06-2009, 11:34 PM
#70
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Just my humble opinion
"And isn't WorldPAC wholesale only?"
When one's business model sells with little value-added other than price,
those that provide the drop-ships with complete customer mailing lists will
one day sell retail and "capture" the 20-30% gross themselves, i.e. maybe
sooner than one thinks given the economy. They are already taking credit
card wholesale business and have on-line catalog and ordering systems.
"There are better 911 technical threads IMHO on PP than here."
Really, and what's this based upon, i.e. the so-called know-it-alls who
generally provide the majority of the technically incorrect posts? Or is it
based on the usual "thick-headed' ones that fail to accept nor understand
simple basic concepts and rely on what was posted on the internet and
then paraphrase it?
Bottom line: Rennlist is levels above the amatuerish nature of the "dark side"
forum!
When one's business model sells with little value-added other than price,
those that provide the drop-ships with complete customer mailing lists will
one day sell retail and "capture" the 20-30% gross themselves, i.e. maybe
sooner than one thinks given the economy. They are already taking credit
card wholesale business and have on-line catalog and ordering systems.
"There are better 911 technical threads IMHO on PP than here."
Really, and what's this based upon, i.e. the so-called know-it-alls who
generally provide the majority of the technically incorrect posts? Or is it
based on the usual "thick-headed' ones that fail to accept nor understand
simple basic concepts and rely on what was posted on the internet and
then paraphrase it?
Bottom line: Rennlist is levels above the amatuerish nature of the "dark side"
forum!
As for the "dark side", I just know from experience that I've gotten better advice and solutions working on my '82 911 on Pelican than Rennlist. Maybe I'm only running into the simple problems that the Pelicans can understand. The Rennlisters may be too bored with my bush-league ancient air-cooled 911 car's repair problems to help me.
02-06-2009, 11:53 PM
#71
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Erik's screwed and Joe knows it
I think we have read enough on this topic... If Erik wants his funds... he can file a lawsuit in small claims court... having five pages of posts... on a technical forum.. on a non-technical topic.. serves no purpose. It was enough of a warning after the initial post of warning and the few "supportive" posts sympathizing with his position. This is meaningless banter at this point... unless you are Erik's lawyer.. you have nothing to gain by taking the bandwidth. Cant we just put this to rest?
Erik's in Colorado, Joe's in Georgia. How does anyone come out on suing someone for $2k from that distance? If you'd take the time to read the posts on this issue, Brad, you'd see that Joe seldom screws over someone local. He picks the long distance guys to take advantage of. He knows what he's doing to people.
And what is all this talk about bandwidth? If this thread wasn't interesting to at least a few people, including Wayne and Adrian, it would be on about page twelve by now. It was dead for weeks until Wayne resurrected it with his ridiculous drivel about his kids and his new book and how precious his time is. I bet you have kids too Brad, I bet you don't have enough time to do everything you'd like to do, but are you Porsche royalty where having kids makes you special? Wayne could have let it go -- I know I did -- but then he had to dreg it up.
02-07-2009, 12:00 AM
#72
I haddah Google dat
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
rb, I'd like to suggest that you lay this issue to rest. You are starting to erode a lot of goodwill on both Pelican and Renn. Don't do that. You're pissed about something, ok we get it.
You have a lot of good technical posting to do now, to "give back" to both communities. I don't appreciate your statements about how one is better than the other, etc. It is unnecessary and bad for the spirit that is needed to make a web community work.
You have a lot of good technical posting to do now, to "give back" to both communities. I don't appreciate your statements about how one is better than the other, etc. It is unnecessary and bad for the spirit that is needed to make a web community work.
02-07-2009, 12:31 AM
#73
Addict
"And isn't WorldPAC wholesale only?"
When one's business model sells with little value-added other than price,
those that provide the drop-ships with complete customer mailing lists will
one day sell retail and "capture" the 20-30% gross themselves, i.e. maybe
sooner than one thinks given the economy. They are already taking credit
card wholesale business and have on-line catalog and ordering systems.
When one's business model sells with little value-added other than price,
those that provide the drop-ships with complete customer mailing lists will
one day sell retail and "capture" the 20-30% gross themselves, i.e. maybe
sooner than one thinks given the economy. They are already taking credit
card wholesale business and have on-line catalog and ordering systems.
Everyone remembers the bad taste one bad thread leaves. My brother-in-law is active on Pelican's BBS and it would be natural for me to join in over there, but I can't get the fights between Lorenfb and Steve Wong out of my head. It turned me off so badly, that I almost didn't want to even buy from them. I think Performance got the first $3,000 I spent on parts just because of the constant bashing I saw. Fortunately (for me, perhaps not for the rest of you) I kinda like it here. any way, let it go.
02-07-2009, 12:39 AM
#74
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I think I've done my fair share ...
rb, I'd like to suggest that you lay this issue to rest. You are starting to erode a lot of goodwill on both Pelican and Renn. Don't do that. You're pissed about something, ok we get it.
You have a lot of good technical posting to do now, to "give back" to both communities. I don't appreciate your statements about how one is better than the other, etc. It is unnecessary and bad for the spirit that is needed to make a web community work.
You have a lot of good technical posting to do now, to "give back" to both communities. I don't appreciate your statements about how one is better than the other, etc. It is unnecessary and bad for the spirit that is needed to make a web community work.
And as for contributions to the betterment of Porsche, you may want to check out the Porsche breakfast club I single handedly started in Denver:
http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/...breakfastclub/
If you'd like to join, let me know and I'll ask the moderator to let you in.
... or the DIY clinics I helped organize. Or the work I did on the new race track. Or the friendship and support I've given to a great Porsche friend and mentor. And I have chimed in on Pelican 911 Technical, here and there. Maybe helped a Pelican or two avoid a problem I suffered through. I think I've done OK as a contributor to the Porsche collective.
Not much technical from me on Rennlist I'm afraid. As I said before the action in Rennlist is in the newer cars (just check out the For Sale forum) and OT. Someday I may be able to help with the 993 or 951 or 928 forums but right now I don't know zip about those cars. Maybe as I move up the Porsche food chain. But damaging goodwill? What goodwill? I don't see it. Porsche friends get screwed and no one cares. The political powers run for cover and Erik gets reamed. And all that seems to matter is the wasted band width.
Last edited by rbuswell; 02-07-2009 at 01:04 PM. Reason: Change in content
