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Searched for a while to find a candidate for a hot rod (original search thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...-driver-2.html). The car is in pretty good shape and mostly original. This will be a mild hot rod that will take some time for me (and hopefully my son will have an interest) to complete. Imagining a hot rod that someone might have built in the 70's using parts from other models/years - a sort of sleeper hot rod. It will remain a narrow body and mostly stock on the outside. I will share progress but it will probably be slow reporting as I work a crazy amount of hours in my job and will be working on a somewhat limited budget (kids in college!).
Here are my initial ideas for the build:
Start with suspension and brakes:
- 18mm front and rear sway bars (car was not optioned with sway bars)
- 21mm front and 26mm rear torsion bars (maybe hollow?)
- S front brakes
- Koni sports front and rear (currently has Boge)
- Replace all rubber bushings; leaning towards OE rubber vs. aftermarket upgrades
- 15" Fuchs deep 6's front and 7R's on rear (currently has 14" Fuchs)
Interior Ideas:
- Early 914/Carrera RS 380mm VDM steering wheel with early/SWB hockey puck horn
- 917 style shift ****
- Early/SWB window cranks (not sure they are actually lighter but look light and very cool)
- Remove rear seats, panels, shelf etc
- Lightweight carpet
- Simple door cards with custom leather pulls (vintage/rustic look to leather)
- Need to figure out seats (not sure I can afford real sport seats)
Exterior Ideas:
- Early S aluminum decklid and license plate panel (pricey but fun). Plan not to paint the inside of the decklid - leave as aluminum appearance
- Repaint in factory Signal Yellow (one of my favorites and seldom seen)
- Retain S trim as the car was optioned with it, but replace front bumper with S bumper
- Replace the 80's aftermarket mirrors with early/small flag mirrors
- H4's
- Thru horn grill driving lights (smaller - 5.5?)
Other changes to shave pounds:
- Remove a/c (appears dealer installed - not on COA)
- Replace spare with Mahle Gas burner from early 911 (lightest wheel offered on 911 - this is more fun than real weight savings from Fuchs). Keeping spare as I understand it is part of the front crash safety design.
Motor/Trans Ideas:
- Retain stock 915
- R or GT3 style muffler connected to headers (don't think I will keep heat)
- Need to figure out motor. My original plan was to put a larger 3.0 to 3.6 in it but since the car is numbers matching I will probably do a 2.5 or 2.7 build retaining MFI but that is way down the line. This will be the last thing to tackle before paint. The car runs and drives so I can drive it as I am doing the rest.
Open to ideas and input from the Rennlist community - wish me luck
I gave up trying to do the final dial in and brought the car to Scott’s Independent and am now finally able to enjoy the car fully. They did a full health check and were very complimentary on my motor build. Now that the MFI is dialed in, I should be good for a long time - I was off by 5 clicks on the main rack and idle circuit!
Not sure if I will continue to post on this thread or start new threads now that my build is complete. Either way, I wanted to post an ending to this wild journey as I finally arrived at this milestone.
For those that followed along the past 2.5 years and over 1,100 posts, I hope I was able to provide some helpful information or at least some entertainment 😊.
I learned a lot about these old cars and a lot about my own patience and abilities. These types of restorations aren’t for the faint of heart – these old cars have so many hidden surprises that will test both your patience and your wallet. However, it is very doable for an average do-it-yourselfer.
A little more about me – I am a father of 4 and a busy insurance executive. Having just paid for 2 of my kids college and now just about to begin paying for my 3rd kid’s college expenses, picking a rather expensive and time-consuming endeavor like this was probably not the best decision – but hey, you only live once! Hard to believe I was able to finish this thing in 2.5 years given how much I am stretched in other ways – and the work was done in literally the smallest 2-car garage you can build that is packed with ‘stuff’ that a large family packs in the garage – not the best working conditions. In fact, you may recall I sold my 993 C4S partially to help clear some room in the garage.
From the beginning, I wanted a hotrod that someone might have built in the 70's using parts from other models/years - a sort of sleeper hot rod. It was also important to me to keep it as a narrow body and mostly stock on the outside. I also wanted it to be a balanced car – the type of driving experience you hear folks describe for the ’73 RS. It needed to be a throwback experience - one that you cannot experience with any modern car - and not steer too far away from the essence of what Porsche was doing with these cars in the early 70's.
Let’s get to the driving impressions.
I could not be happier with my choices in suspension. Yes, it is a bit firm when encountering large bumps in the road, but generally the car is very compliant and feels extremely capable. Having driven other 911’s, such as my 911SC and a 993, it is shocking just how different these early cars feel. The steering is incredibly light compared to my SC and the car feels so much more nimble. The feedback you receive as the driver and ‘connection’ you feel to the road is unlike any other car I have driven. I did put the car on a diet, so the car is fairly light at 2,133lbs -- I am sure this is a big part of the reason it feels noticeably different than my SC which is ~500lbs heavier. The 185/70 tires and current camber settings does provide a little more of a ‘challenge’ compared to other 911’s I have driven. Long term I may need to figure out getting a larger wheel/tire combo out back and/or a more aggressive camber setting. I do want to lower the front a bit more - but I do not want to go too low. Final comment about the ride – the sport seats make an enormous impact. The stock ‘comfort’ seats really shouldn’t be in a 911 once you add HP. The sport seats are very comfortable and the bolsters really help hold you in during spirited drives and this suspension setup.
The braking is strong and provides confidence—although I will say that the pedal is still a tad soft and I expect it may take time to firm up as the entire braking system was replaced/rebuilt. This is one area where my SC and 993 felt a little better – a little more confidence provided in the pedal feedback. I actually really like the feel of the SC brake pedal – although it has the hydrovac servo/booster (first 911 to have this – introduced with the SC), so I may just need to get used to the feeling of no ‘assistance’ with the pedal.
On to the motor. Wow – simply wow. I could not be any happier with my choices. The torque starts down low and the power band is VERY broad – and this is from 2.5 liters! The power band starts around 3k and just keeps going! It feels strong right up to the new redline of 7,300. The other very noticeable feeling I get from this motor is the throttle response – it is just awesome. I had heard good things about MFI throttle response, and now I get to experience it. The car is on the louder side – but I like it (it is a hotrod after all). I was worried that it would be annoyingly loud on the inside since I stripped out much of the interior, but that is not the case – it sounds just right to me inside, although I think my wife may disagree 😊 I am so happy I stuck with the early mag case and smaller displacement -- it is so hard to duplicate the sound and personality of these motors.
The transmission is stock – and I am sure it will need attention in the future (slight occasional grinding). It has never been rebuilt – I’m sure it helped that it was a T, as it didn’t need to handle the power of the E or S all those years. It shifts surprisingly well – it just goes to show that replacing the bushings goes a long way with a 915. I even kept the stock shifter and I am happy I did. Shifting this old gearbox with its original design is part of the character and provides a truly vintage hotrod experience. In fact, my SC (also having a 915 gearbox) has the factory short shift on it, and I am glad I kept the stock lever on this car as it just feels ‘right’ – it feels like it matches the rest of the personality of this period hotrod.
The car needs some minor details to be taken care of over time, but at least for now I can close out my build and start to enjoy driving the car. I have now put 500 miles on the car and am enjoying every mile. I plan to put many miles on this car - hoping to drive across states and do some fun rally's!
I find that the specs of the RS that Porsche worked out long ago still make for a nice steetable rod...
Beautiful color!!
FG is what I used for rear lid & bumper and S spoiler (tho I'd prefer to strip an early Singer for the F. spoiler)
After you take 300+ lbs. out of the car, it gets really expensive to remove more (while keeping it streetable).
digressive shocks...
MFI is heavy (the pump was meant for a farm tractor...) - a 3.2 or 3.4 is nice but bumps you to the heavier but more rigid Al case
check the gearing and diff. ratios on different years of 915s to match your fav roads and engine characteristics
if you stick with a 2.7 or even a 3L a typ 911 trans. will be a lot more fun (as long as you are very careful in 1st - if not it will be a lot less fun)
nobody really knows if the spare is really part of the front crash safety design... mark it as a rumor & note that the spare would be pushed up in a crash anyway
* it does help balance out the wt.
*** work hard on the rear and up high (roll) and think about momentum, not just wt. balance - the '72 and its more fwd oil tank help you there
you list some things that are more cosmetic than functional (e.g. lightwt. carpet) - nothing wrong with looks tho I wouldn't put a lot of $$ or effort into that vs. say hp & FG
Thanks for the response - good things for me to consider for sure. The car has a FG ducktail on it now, but I prefer the standard decklid look. May consider FG parts though. I'll check your PM as well.
Searched for a while to find a candidate for a hot rod (original search thread: https://rennlist.com/forums/911-foru...-driver-2.html). The car is in pretty good shape and mostly original. This will be a mild hot rod that will take some time for me (and hopefully my son will have an interest) to complete. Imagining a hot rod that someone might have built in the 70's using parts from other models/years - a sort of sleeper hot rod. It will remain a narrow body and mostly stock on the outside. I will share progress but it will probably be slow reporting as I work a crazy amount of hours in my job and will be working on a somewhat limited budget (kids in college!).
Here are my initial ideas for the build:
Start with suspension and brakes:
- 18mm front and rear sway bars (car was not optioned with sway bars)
- 21mm front and 26mm rear torsion bars (maybe hollow?)
- S front brakes
- Koni sports front and rear (currently has Boge)
- Replace all rubber bushings; leaning towards OE rubber vs. aftermarket upgrades
- 15" Fuchs deep 6's front and 7R's on rear (currently has 14" Fuchs)
Interior Ideas:
- Early 914/Carrera RS 380mm VDO steering wheel with early/SWB hockey puck horn
- 917 style shift ****
- Early/SWB window cranks (not sure they are actually lighter but look light and very cool)
- Remove rear seats, panels, shelf etc
- Lightweight carpet
- Simple door cards with custom leather pulls (vintage/rustic look to leather)
- Need to figure out seats (not sure I can afford real sport seats)
Exterior Ideas:
- Early S aluminum decklid and license plate panel (pricey but fun). Plan not to paint the inside of the decklid - leave as aluminum appearance
- Repaint in factory Signal Yellow (one of my favorites and seldom seen)
- Retain S trim as the car was optioned with it, but replace front bumper with S bumper
- Replace the 80's aftermarket mirrors with early/small flag mirrors
- H4's
- Thru horn grill driving lights (smaller - 5.5?)
Other changes to shave pounds:
- Remove a/c (appears dealer installed - not on COA)
- Replace spare with Mahle Gas burner from early 911 (lightest wheel offered on 911 - this is more fun than real weight savings from Fuchs). Keeping spare as I understand it is part of the front crash safety design.
Motor/Trans Ideas:
- Retain stock 915
- R or GT3 style muffler connected to headers (don't think I will keep heat)
- Need to figure out motor. My original plan was to put a larger 3.0 to 3.6 in it but since the car is numbers matching I will probably do a 2.5 or 2.7 build retaining MFI but that is way down the line. This will be the last thing to tackle before paint. The car runs and drives so I can drive it as I am doing the rest.
Open to ideas and input from the Rennlist community - wish me luck
Start with suspension and brakes:
- 18mm front and rear sway bars (car was not optioned with sway bars) - Good, factory option back in the day was 15/15
- 21mm front and 26mm rear torsion bars (maybe hollow?) - Good, Sanders hollow w/ rubber bush's all available from Elephant, I replaced the rear spring plates w/ Rennline adjustable versions they come w/ sport rubber bush's installed and make corne balance easier.
- S front brakes - Good
- Koni sports front and rear (currently has Boge)- I'd go w/ Bilstein hd all around have digressive revalve when you know the final weight
- Replace all rubber bushings; leaning towards OE rubber vs. aftermarket upgrades -See above Elephant rubber front, Rennline spring plates
- 15" Fuchs deep 6's front and 7R's on rear (currently has 14" Fuchs) - Good but you ought to be able to use 7ET23.3 all around, 205/50 & 225/50 x15( or more conservative 205//50 all around) tires will have a lower gearing & inertial cost than oe 185/70 x15
Exterior Ideas:
- Early S aluminum decklid and license plate panel (pricey but fun). Plan not to paint the inside of the decklid - leave as aluminum appearance
- Repaint in factory Signal Yellow (one of my favorites and seldom seen)
- Retain S trim as the car was optioned with it, but replace front bumper with S bumper On my '72 I replaced the oe steel S bumper w/ a f/g version the S trim can be bolted to that, Similarly in back use f/g
- Thru horn grill driving lights (smaller - 5.5?) - do you really need driving lights? If you upgrade the motor you will need front oil cooler and the existing front vents, or use an RS bumper & center mount cooler
Motor/Trans Ideas:
- R or GT3 style muffler connected to headers (don't think I will keep heat)- SSi are among the best exhaust choices for 2.4 to 3.0 they come w/ hea use it or not
- Need to figure out motor. My original plan was to put a larger 3.0 to 3.6 in it but since the car is numbers matching I will probably do a 2.5 or 2.7 build retaining MFI but that is way down the line. This will be the last thing to tackle before paint. The car runs and drives so I can drive it as I am doing the rest. - Forget a 3.6 unless you go to SC/RS quarters, the tires just won't be up to it. a nice 2.7RS build is the way to go.
^ thanks, Bill. Glad you confirmed much of my thinking. Those are the tire sizes I was thinking as well. You and Randy pointed out some of my items are purely cosmetic. I admit that I am trying to create a modest hot rod with some purely cosmetic touches - however this may change as I get further into the build (ie driving lights)
Thanks - I do need to really think about the bushings. On the fence given my modest build and the way I will be using my car. I forgot to tell Bill that I am a fan of SSI's - one of the best upgrades I made on my SC many years ago. May consider them with this build as well.
GTS classics can do you really nice seats in any style. Sport, ST, RSR. Etc.
Congrats on a great start
+1 for GTS Classics. I just visited Stefan's shop last weekend to pick out the details on my custom seats. There are certainly cheaper options, but if you really want a custom look and fit, you can't do much better.
Not that this was the most important part to start with, but I purchased my first part for the hot rod. I found an Early 914/Carrera RS 380mm VDM steering wheel. These are getting harder to find and increasingly expensive for basically a donor wheel to be restored. I hope I don't regret buying one in poor shape - but it was fairly cheep. I will restore the spokes and send off to Autobahn or Dallas to be re-wrapped in leather (thick). Now to find the hockey puck horn - wow these are scarce and crazy expensive for what it is.
Well she arrived today from MI. Already learning a bit more about the car. The car was owned by the same family in MI for the past 20 years. They bought it from a guy in WI. The didn't know any of the history of the car prior to 20 years ago, but I found an interesting clue of its prior life. The car has a CA emissions sticker on the rear driver's side pop out window. I have never seen one of these on a longhood before. My SC has one. I did some digging on the early S Registry and it sounds like this would indicate it was originally delivered to CA. I also hear it is rare to see these stickers as they were removed or deteriorated over time. So she has returned home to CA. Anyway, now the work begins!
So I have only had the car for several hours but after giving it a quick once over I started taking the a/c system out. This car had a shoddy 'redo' sometime in the 80's and we all know how old Porsche's were usually treated in the 80's. I already have spotted several sins and I'm sure I'll find more thru this project. So back to the a/c, a prior owner had already started taking out the a/c and the parts were included in a box. The compressor and evaporator that would have attached to the decklid were in a box. So I removed the vents attached under the dash, started removing some of the hoses and as I followed hoses I found that there was another evaporator mounted in the driver's side rear wheel well. What seems to have happened was that when the ducktail was installed, the decklid evaporator was never reinstalled and instead more holes were drilled and lines were run from the passenger to the driver side to install the new evaporator. It was probably nice in its day as it also has a fan attached to it. It is crazy to think of all the holes cut and drilled in this car for the a/c including the giant hole cut in the passenger footwell into the smugglers box. You can also see that the rear bumper has suffered damage as it does not align with the fender. I still have all the lines running up to the smugglers box and the drier to remove - another day.