What's Happening? Deposits on the 2025 983 e718, anyone?
06-01-2023, 10:58 AM
#46
While I agree with you, most electric cars have not not held their value like Porsche sports cars have.
I know there are plenty of people on here who claim that they don't care about depreciation and that when they buy a car they essentially build a bonfire and throw stacks of Benjamins into it. However, those same people will sell you their ten-year-old GT3 for $50k over MSRP.
The truth of the matter is that most Porsche sports cars have a lower total cost of ownership than a Kia sedan. Although the initial sticker shock takes a lot of people out of the market, we all know we can sell in a few years and recoup a large percentage of that money.
However, as technology advances, a ten-year-old electric vehicle is not going to be competitive or as desirable as that ten-year-old GT3. So, at least for me, that puts me out of the market. I can justify spending $200k on a GT3 as I know that the total cost of ownership will be low. $200k on an electric vehicle that is not the family SUV or used for towing etc. and I can only get maybe $60k back is not a good value proposition as I don't have that type of money to burn.
I know there are plenty of people on here who claim that they don't care about depreciation and that when they buy a car they essentially build a bonfire and throw stacks of Benjamins into it. However, those same people will sell you their ten-year-old GT3 for $50k over MSRP.
The truth of the matter is that most Porsche sports cars have a lower total cost of ownership than a Kia sedan. Although the initial sticker shock takes a lot of people out of the market, we all know we can sell in a few years and recoup a large percentage of that money.
However, as technology advances, a ten-year-old electric vehicle is not going to be competitive or as desirable as that ten-year-old GT3. So, at least for me, that puts me out of the market. I can justify spending $200k on a GT3 as I know that the total cost of ownership will be low. $200k on an electric vehicle that is not the family SUV or used for towing etc. and I can only get maybe $60k back is not a good value proposition as I don't have that type of money to burn.
I wouldn’t compare run-of-the-mill ICE cars to a 911 in terms of depreciation so it doesn’t make sense to do so when comparing ICE and EV.
06-01-2023, 12:20 PM
#47
Rennlist Member
The only other electric sports car that can used as a comparison between ICE and electric sports cars is the Tesla Roadster. It has held its value quite well.
I wouldn’t compare run-of-the-mill ICE cars to a 911 in terms of depreciation so it doesn’t make sense to do so when comparing ICE and EV.
I wouldn’t compare run-of-the-mill ICE cars to a 911 in terms of depreciation so it doesn’t make sense to do so when comparing ICE and EV.
The Tesla roadster is an interesting example and EV sports cars may retain their value but it is an unknown at this point.
06-01-2023, 12:33 PM
#48
One-Owner 2008 Tesla Roadster for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $96,000 on May 8, 2023 (Lot #106,512) | Bring a Trailer
Tesla Roadster For Sale - BaT Auctions (bringatrailer.com)
Comparing an M3 to a 911 only further validates my point. You've now shown that even BMW's halo product can't hold a candle to Porsche's low depreciation. There's no reason why their EV sports car will be any different.
06-01-2023, 01:17 PM
#49
Rennlist Member
Tesla roadster is only valuable because it's rare. And it's rare because no one wanted it when it was available as a new vehicle. Maybe the 4 cylinder 718 will be desirable 30 years from now just like the 912 and 914 are today. People seem to want rare things based only (or mostly) on them being rare. And things that everyone desires are usually made in large numbers. So crappy undesirable vehicles often become collector cars.
Last edited by Denny Swift; 06-01-2023 at 01:18 PM.
06-01-2023, 01:46 PM
#50
Rennlist Member
It's definitely not an unknown. I just sold one on BaT for $96k and another recently sold for $210k
One-Owner 2008 Tesla Roadster for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $96,000 on May 8, 2023 (Lot #106,512) | Bring a Trailer
Tesla Roadster For Sale - BaT Auctions (bringatrailer.com)
Comparing an M3 to a 911 only further validates my point. You've now shown that even BMW's halo product can't hold a candle to Porsche's low depreciation. There's no reason why their EV sports car will be any different.
One-Owner 2008 Tesla Roadster for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $96,000 on May 8, 2023 (Lot #106,512) | Bring a Trailer
Tesla Roadster For Sale - BaT Auctions (bringatrailer.com)
Comparing an M3 to a 911 only further validates my point. You've now shown that even BMW's halo product can't hold a candle to Porsche's low depreciation. There's no reason why their EV sports car will be any different.
There is not enough data to draw a conclusion as there simply have not been enough sales for a larger market to decide. BMW's used to be known for their low depreciation. Back in the E46 days, buying a new BMW was a good bet as you could sell it in a few years for almost what you paid for it. Now they have diluted their brand, gone more main-stream, focused on turbocharging and automatics, had a string of engine failures and other issues, and now they are one of the fastest depreciating brands out there. Can Porsche go the same way? Perhaps. They are still considered a premium product BUT with more and more mainstream offerings that may change.
If anyone could see the future and accurately predict markets... well, they aren't here posting on Rennlist.
Last edited by MaddMike; 06-01-2023 at 01:47 PM.
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GTSPYDER23 (06-01-2023)
06-01-2023, 02:02 PM
#51
Rennlist Member
I was not referring to resale or cost of ownership at all... Just the driving experience. It is likely that an electric car may not hold its value like and ICE going forward as in my head it seems less of an art form and more of an engineering pursuit, not that 'engineering' cant be 'sexy'.... unless Porsche builds their own version of a 'Flux Capacitor'!
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MaddMike (06-01-2023)
06-01-2023, 02:36 PM
#52
Drifting
It's definitely not an unknown. I just sold one on BaT for $96k and another recently sold for $210k
One-Owner 2008 Tesla Roadster for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $96,000 on May 8, 2023 (Lot #106,512) | Bring a Trailer
Tesla Roadster For Sale - BaT Auctions (bringatrailer.com)
Comparing an M3 to a 911 only further validates my point. You've now shown that even BMW's halo product can't hold a candle to Porsche's low depreciation. There's no reason why their EV sports car will be any different.
One-Owner 2008 Tesla Roadster for sale on BaT Auctions - sold for $96,000 on May 8, 2023 (Lot #106,512) | Bring a Trailer
Tesla Roadster For Sale - BaT Auctions (bringatrailer.com)
Comparing an M3 to a 911 only further validates my point. You've now shown that even BMW's halo product can't hold a candle to Porsche's low depreciation. There's no reason why their EV sports car will be any different.
EV's do commuter crap the best and don't exactly hold value well for that, especially true when you look at EV's that aren't in the last 5 years. I can go buy a 10 year old nissan leaf for 12g right now (cad), or I can buy a 200x Corolla for 12g. Or if I want a honda fit the same age as the leaf it's about 18g. The leaf was about 40g new, and the corolla would have been about 15-18g new, same with the fit. There are other examples too. These first gen ev sports cars are going to be hugely undesirable for resale imo.
06-01-2023, 02:46 PM
#53
Three Wheelin'
lol i think you're reading way too heavily into my statement. The "us" are the people who have mostly been vocal in this thread about never wanting an EV or thinking the EV Sportscar isn't a good idea. Thought that would be relatively obvious but i apologize i didn't specify "the people who dont want a cayman EV".
06-01-2023, 03:36 PM
#54
It is an unknown as there have not been electric sports cars. All of them have been one-offs or very low production numbers. The Tesla roadster recently became collectable but for a while, dealers couldn't move them even with heavy discounts. I believe there was one that sat on the lot for ten years.
There is not enough data to draw a conclusion as there simply have not been enough sales for a larger market to decide. BMW's used to be known for their low depreciation. Back in the E46 days, buying a new BMW was a good bet as you could sell it in a few years for almost what you paid for it. Now they have diluted their brand, gone more main-stream, focused on turbocharging and automatics, had a string of engine failures and other issues, and now they are one of the fastest depreciating brands out there. Can Porsche go the same way? Perhaps. They are still considered a premium product BUT with more and more mainstream offerings that may change.
If anyone could see the future and accurately predict markets... well, they aren't here posting on Rennlist.
There is not enough data to draw a conclusion as there simply have not been enough sales for a larger market to decide. BMW's used to be known for their low depreciation. Back in the E46 days, buying a new BMW was a good bet as you could sell it in a few years for almost what you paid for it. Now they have diluted their brand, gone more main-stream, focused on turbocharging and automatics, had a string of engine failures and other issues, and now they are one of the fastest depreciating brands out there. Can Porsche go the same way? Perhaps. They are still considered a premium product BUT with more and more mainstream offerings that may change.
If anyone could see the future and accurately predict markets... well, they aren't here posting on Rennlist.
06-01-2023, 03:41 PM
#55
lol i think you're reading way too heavily into my statement. The "us" are the people who have mostly been vocal in this thread about never wanting an EV or thinking the EV Sportscar isn't a good idea. Thought that would be relatively obvious but i apologize i didn't specify "the people who dont want a cayman EV".
06-01-2023, 04:23 PM
#56
Rennlist Member
No, its not. Certain cars become collector cars for a variety of reasons. Other cars which are supposed to be rare or desirable no one wants to touch with a ten foot pole. Using one model that was produced for a couple of years and extrapolating that that is what the used electric sports car market will do is not a real sample size to make any kind of informed projection.
06-01-2023, 04:43 PM
#57
Three Wheelin'
lol you know what never mind. I was just making a point that Porsche was making these cars with a target market of the new generation. Their target is very obviously not our generation. Whether or not you want an EV doesn't matter. There will always be overlap in all things. But its obvious where their marketing is pointing.
06-01-2023, 05:55 PM
#58
No, its not. Certain cars become collector cars for a variety of reasons. Other cars which are supposed to be rare or desirable no one wants to touch with a ten foot pole. Using one model that was produced for a couple of years and extrapolating that that is what the used electric sports car market will do is not a real sample size to make any kind of informed projection.
06-03-2023, 05:49 PM
#59
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
This just in...
I find it's a bit of an odd piece of auto journalism. AI bot written?
Porsche’s All-Electric 718 Cayman And Boxster Will Succeed: Here’s Why (forbes.com)
I find it's a bit of an odd piece of auto journalism. AI bot written?
Porsche’s All-Electric 718 Cayman And Boxster Will Succeed: Here’s Why (forbes.com)
06-03-2023, 08:45 PM
#60
Rennlist Member
The naysayers are in vogue at the moment. They said the same thing about, well, everything. Porsche may get the first gen wrong but they will get it right as they usually do. Consider for a moment if they get the weight down and suspension and steering feel right... with the torque and low center of gravity this will be a slot car and out perform numerically almost any car in the line up (please dont bore me with 'but it lost its soul' gibberish like you all did back in 1999-996 or 2019-992). They will sell a lot of these cars and to many NA customers and in a short period of time say a decade after these are out and there have been a couple generations and GT and GTRS versions of an electric Cayman/Boxster - the naysayers will be signing a different tune. I for one at the tender age of mid sixties will be first in line for a GT4E!
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triode (06-05-2023)