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luckily Porsche GT cars hold their value well so they are not hard to get out of.
It is well documented now about the GT4 & 4RS shortcomings and those looking to buy now and who do their own research can find all the info. they need.
When I went into my GT4 purchase, none of this info. was out there and all the reviews from the forums, online, and YouTube were all "Porsche GT cars are the greatest thing since slice bread" and "once you go Porsche you will never leave". I totally bought into that and based on price and all those glowing reviews, my expectations were high.
I knew nothing about what it meant to have struts on all 4 corners, nor was I expecting Porsche's PASM damping profiles to be so poorly set-up and only good for smooth roads. A mini test drive did not show any shortcomings before I bought.
We all know my expectations were not met. Had we not been in the middle of Covid and supply chain issues and inflated car prices, I would have sold my GT4, but since the wait list for my second choice (C8 Z06) was 2+ years out, I choose the modding route.
I just wish all this honest and actually true feed back was avail. BEFORE I bought mine as I would have just passed from the beginning.
What still gets to me though still to this day is how you can watch a review on something like the C8 Z06 and hear the praise from how composed and settled it is and how well it handles (from those who actually matter and know how to drive like Randy & Misha), and then think about how I paid $120+K for a Porsche GT product that needs another $10K+ of suspension and suspension components to actually feel like something that is cohesive and actually feels like what you would expect for a car of this caliber.
Some of you love to bag on my comments, but put yourself in my position,, getting out of a $50K Camaro SS 1LE that was very composed, easy to drive fast, and handled VERY well, and into something that costs 3X as much and have it not drive even nearly as good. I love the GT4 for the things that the Camaro did not offer (light weight, mid-engine, PDK, interior quality), but it falls apart after that.
If you watch "It's Track Time" on You Tube, you will find a dedicated 4RS owner seeking perfection at COTA in the car..
He has a well done review of the 4RS being driven by Randy Probst, who makes recommendations on car setup up for the 4RS for COTA.
Probst's comments on "rear rebound" could have come directly from you.....
He clearly found the "weak point" of GT4/RS suspension, and is kind of amusing in his comments....
To me, you were pointing this out years ago, some of us. were fortunate to discover these issues early on, as a Porsche "newbie" it was no doubt disappointing, but hopefully you would not trade the GT4, now that you have perfected it!
And yes, resale is good, I just traded my 21 GT4 for almost what I paid for it on a 4RS...
If you watch "It's Track Time" on You Tube, you will find a dedicated 4RS owner seeking perfection at COTA in the car..
He has a well done review of the 4RS being driven by Randy Probst, who makes recommendations on car setup up for the 4RS for COTA.
Probst's comments on "rear rebound" could have come directly from you.....
He clearly found the "weak point" of GT4/RS suspension, and is kind of amusing in his comments....
To me, you were pointing this out years ago, some of us. were fortunate to discover these issues early on, as a Porsche "newbie" it was no doubt disappointing, but hopefully you would not trade the GT4, now that you have perfected it!
And yes, resale is good, I just traded my 21 GT4 for almost what I paid for it on a 4RS...
Cheers!
Randy probst is talking about 4RS is being under damped for the stiff spring in the rear. (Needs a faster responding damper) He is taking about it being struct and how “insanely” bad it is. Two different things.
Randy probst is talking about 4RS is being under damped for the stiff spring in the rear. (Needs a faster responding damper) He is taking about it being struct and how “insanely” bad it is. Two different things.
My 718 GT4 had a similar rear strut and was poorly dampened...
Probst recommended MCS dampers which I think are the ones used by TRZ06...
My new 4RS has similar struts and is poorly dampened in the rear as well.
Yes, the 4RS has stronger springs, but to me the physics is exactly the same as the GT4 as highlighted..
Definitely needs better dampers...
Randy Post was the first one to point out how badly then 981 GT4 pushed on track right after he tested it. This platform has always had some issues the GT3s don't have. Why all the surprise the 4RS has some as well?
My 718 GT4 had a similar rear strut and was poorly dampened...
Probst recommended MCS dampers which I think are the ones used by TRZ06...
My new 4RS has similar struts and is poorly dampened in the rear as well.
Yes, the 4RS has stronger springs, but to me the physics is exactly the same as the GT4 as highlighted..
Definitely needs better dampers...
Cheers!
I don't think Probst recommended any specific products. He just mentioned better damping. MCS is just a good brand for it. Improved damping can be achieved in many ways.
This is not new for 4RS, many other Porsche GT car owners switched dampers (outside of newest 3RS, which come as OEM with much better dampers) because OEM ones might not meet their track needs.
But what I have to say is... "need" is a strong word. OEM ones certainly is good enough for road. Lilke Manifold says, you might just wanna checkout DSC box. Porsche's OEM programming only use about 60% of the adjustibility of the bilsten dampers.
TRZ is always talking about the GT4 rear being struct and keeps talking about how bad that is again and again and again. Not damping. I just don't see how a person never been on a track able to get to the limit where struct matters. (It only matters at outer end of the dynamic range).
Maybe a 130 Nm rear spring and the DSC sport box. Porsche tuned both the 4 and 4RS in a similar manner. Not enough rebound damping then too stiff of a rear spring and again not enough rebound dampening. Their philosophy is the same. So the more people start applying some mods, the sooner we will know just how fixable it will be. I will be working with the DSC box sometime in the fall after I get new tires and sort the last few bits of the suspension, tire, and alignment integration.
Before switching dampers, may be worth installing the DSC box and playing with the tuning.
For sure on the DSC, I have it on my 4RS, had it on my GT4 and GT3's as well..
It does "smooth out" the car, I have never succeeded in tuning it!
Part of the issue at COTA seems to be the way you have to "run the curbs" to be fast, that surely can upset the GT4/RS platform compared to the GT3?RS platform, in my experience...
YMMV
Cheers!
Maybe a 130 Nm rear spring and the DSC sport box. Porsche tuned both the 4 and 4RS in a similar manner. Not enough rebound damping then too stiff of a rear spring and again not enough rebound dampening. Their philosophy is the same. So the more people start applying some mods, the sooner we will know just how fixable it will be. I will be working with the DSC box sometime in the fall after I get new tires and sort the last few bits of the suspension, tire, and alignment integration.
I have my DSC installed on the 4RS and will run it on Sat/Sun this week end.
I expect it will be a "smoothing out" tool as it was on my previous GT cars...
For you at COTA, I think part of the issue is how you "run the curbs" to be fast, much more aggressive than I am used to...
But yes, as all these mods are tested, we will figure it out!
Cheers!
For sure on the DSC, I have it on my 4RS, had it on my GT4 and GT3's as well..
It does "smooth out" the car, I have never succeeded in tuning it!
Part of the issue at COTA seems to be the way you have to "run the curbs" to be fast, that surely can upset the GT4/RS platform compared to the GT3?RS platform, in my experience...
YMMV
Cheers!
Yeah certainly GT3 platform with multi-link certainly does much better at curb bump on a real track. I've personally experience how smooth it was, it was almost like just riding on normal road surface.
For 4RS DSC can't really help with that. I don't think it was that big of an issue though, you just have to know that the car does "wiggle" a bit on curb bump and carry on. Once you are use to it, it doesn't slow you down much really.
You get a few "wtf is the car doing" moment when transitioning over, but you get use to it.
Yeah totes, I was thinking about a 458 when I bought the SRS. But I just don’t want the extra attention and not having a dealer within 200 miles. Porsches definitely have that over other brands. people don’t really know what you have vs the common boxster you see everywhere.
I also have to say that the SRS roof isn’t that bad once you owned it and did it a couple of times. Also just keep it up in bikini configuration if you don’t want to deal with it. I would definitely give it a drive if you ever get a chance. It fixes a lot of problems you have with 4RS like the sound, excessive suspension bounce/bump steer. Downside is you can’t really do serious tracking but you already have other track cars.
I’m not sure about the lack of attention. Every time I’ve been out in the SRS some one has made a comment about the car. It gets way more attention than I thought it would. Regarding the roof, yes it isn’t that hard to deal with.
The DSC box comes with a standard upgraded software setting for the 4RS. Then you have to make additional changes on your lap top, drive it, make more adjustments, drive it, and fine tune things until you have the settings that fit your needs. A bit of work best done with a car buddy and or someone who understands suspension dynamics.
You can electronically and independently adjust the overall front and rear damper rates. Then the slow, medium, and fast rebound (and maybe compression too) of the shocks. Individual overall damper rate adjustments of each corner of the car on top of the master setting depending the G-forces, speed, braking pressure, and acceleration. Plus other items I don't remember off the top of my head.
So you can transiently soften the compression and maintain the rebound on the inside wheels when in a corner with various levels of adjustment depending on the G forces on the outside wheels from (.2-.4-.6-.8-1.0 Gs). So when crashing over a rumble strip you can have the inside front wheel set at 40% of normal compression and maybe 60% of rebound. This will let the wheel up more quickly and easily but have 50% more relative rebound (a deficiency in our cars) to let it back down. The inside rear wheel could be set at 60-70% com and 90% reb per se. This whole exercise keeps the car more level and in contact with the ground. As you are transitioning back to driving straight again all these settings gradually return back to their regular points. Roll into the next turn the other way and it will do the same for that turn as per your programing. All of this can really make the car ride and race a lot better. Just takes a lot of time to figure it all out. Worked very well on my Cayman S from 10 years ago.
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