There is a big difference between 'can afford' and what is acceptable risk. Once cars are above $200k it makes them very difficult to track unless money is not a factor in your existence. The 992 GT3 at current prices has the same issue. It pulls both the GT4 RS and 992 GT3 out of most peoples hands realistically. This is not the case at MSRP.

As for folks saying 'oh you should of just got on the list earlier', I think you are fundamentally misunderstanding how lists work in this new environment. It really doesn't matter when you got on the list, or certainly the 3 dealers I know in the NE including where I got my GT4. I'm on two 'lists'. All it does it give you first refusal at $100k ADM, the dealers don't care who they sell it to. Maybe I get the call a second time when they can find no one at $100k ADM, but I doubt it. There will be plenty of 'collectors' and 'speculators' who will buy it and park it, perhaps putting it to cars and coffee once in a while.

 

I agree, good points and I will add that financial stratification happens at many levels, there are many who are at no where near this cost level and would never consider tracking their car as an acceptable risk.

 

For sure, tracking is an expensive endeavor and you need a good level of risk tolerance to even engage in the activity. The challenge is reputable track insurance companies, like Ontrack for example aren't going to insure you over $175k. So you buy your shiny GT4 RS with ADM for $300k, head to the track ready to put down some scorching lap times. The pesky Miata in front of you spills coolant everywhere into the esses at WGI and you engage the wall at high speed. You walk away with not only a bruised ego, but a seriously bruised wallet. $125k uninsured + $17.5k deductible (10%) and you are in the hole for $140k+. Perhaps there are insurance companies I am not aware of who will let you take this risk for an exorbitant fee, but the numbers just don't add up for most track rats at these ADM levels. I really hope I see some GT4 RS at the track over the next few years and perhaps someone is kind enough to let me ride in one though

 

Well, sounds like you should get the X3 and bitch about its powder running capability. I kid I kid...

On a srs note, I get some of where you're coming from, but I find it interesting at how you've landed at a very different GT4 opinion than I have, given some of our common past. I suspect a lot of it is how we respectively use the cars. I do agree that it 'needs' mods to shine, but that's been the case for pretty much every car I've owned, including the C6Z. Regarding your BMW comments, I do think the f80M is a place where BMW took a big step away from what I like in a driver's car. I've had a few enthusiast oriented BMWs, and found them all to be very enjoyable to drive... and it was an experience where the more I drove them, the more I enjoyed them. Some weren't even very fast (330ci manual).

One thing I haven't tried is a 6th gen ZL1 1LE, a car which gets my attention from several perspectives.

To the OP subject, regarding the GT4RS unobtainium, if its price on new or used market ever gets within ~$20k of MSRP, I'll snap one up. Else, I'll 'suffer' with a heavily modded poverty GT4 for a very long time.

 

Lotus Emira will be here soon for those who would like to try something different. Still more of a 718 competitor than a GT4, but I wonder if they will, at some point, release an "RS" version. Not for me, but some might decide to avoid the hassle and craziness of dealing with a P dealer in search for a GT4RS and try something new.

 

car market is crazy now on everything
a used GT4 2022 with 2400 miles just sold for 33 k above sticker
so it will be a while for GT4RS to be sold at sticker , but will be sometime before that , and obviously will depend on how many they will build and world economy

 

I’d probably say half of the Americans at least who buy a GT4 RS actually really want a 911 GTS type experience. The noise and lack of practicality will get old quickly and hopefully they will change hands to people who will use them for their intended purpose.

 

What did you base this on and why does it apply to “Americans”?

 

Well from stock, they car just was not very well tuned damping wise. Any road that had bumps, broken pavement, or dips caused the chassis to move around quite a bit and get unsettled.

After everything I have done to it, it is now pretty good on most roads, but I live in an area where most of the freeways around me that I drive on a regular basis are crap and really test any sports car suspension. I am now finding alternative routes to make the car more happy. On smooth and only minor broken pavement roads, the car does good.

Part of my issue is that I came directly from a car with MRC and that is where the bar is set for me. If you have even driven a sports car with it, it really changes the game and ups the ante. Because the shocks react so fast and can go anywhere from zero resistance to 100% resistance 1000 times a second, you can go with a softer spring, but stiffer sway bar and let the shocks do the rest. When they have that much range, you get the best of both worlds of unrivaled comfort AND control. I am not kidding when I say I was able to take a road at 130 and it felt exactly the same as going 60, regardless of the road condition, it is that good.

So in summary, ones perspective (as with other aspects like speed) really come down to the individual's past experiences. If I had gone from my F80 M3 into the GT4, I am sure my perspective would have been different, but coming from a 6th Gen. Camaro SS 1LE with its Alpha chassis and MRC, which has been the most sorted and complete packaged car (performance wise) I have owned to date, that is where the bar was set.

Don't get me wrong, the GT4 does most things better than my 1LE did (and with a nicer interior), EXCEPT chassis composure and high speed damping on rough/broken roads, but those are BIG exceptions for me. I am also a bit salty that I had to put $15K into it to get it to a level where it feels good most of the time.

Even though I now have the GT4 pretty dialed in, a good part of me longs to be back in a MRC equipped sports car, so that is a big reason I have put a deposit and got on the wait list for the C8 Z06.

The ZL1 1LE is an amazing track car, but you have to know what you are getting into with that car. It bypasses MRC and has a DSSV spool valved fixed dampers. It is even more stiff than the GT4 and will beat you up on anything less than smooth pavement. It is a one dimensional track focused car. Go watch Savagegeese's review on it, and watch the driving portion, you will see both of them bouncing all around the cabin.

 

I tend to agree with this. But the reason I think is not what most people think.

The reason really is that most states where these kind of cars are purchased have crappy roads and the states do not put much money into the road infrastructure as they should, so we are left with roads where you really need a good and controlled suspension and damping. If we hade roads like Germany, it would be a different story.

 

In some ways, Porsche would have been better off pricing the GT4RS (and the 911R) like a Speedster- $100K more than the car it’s based on- the GT3. At $300K optioned, it would help weed out speculators / flippers, although it would also price out a lot of buyers.

When the Speedster was released, I never gave it a second thought- sensational car but I couldnt justify the premium over a GT3 or Spyder. The “problem” with the 4RS is that it sits at the unique intersection of being “affordable” for many at $150-200K, being one of the best road / track cars ever made, and introduced at a time of easy money / QE / low interest rates (in contrast to the 997 GT3’s sitting on dealer lots in ‘09-‘10).

Like the Speedster, at $250-300K, I would stop reading / thinking about / resarching the 4RS and simply buy a GT4 PDK, mod it a bit, and call it a day- happy as a clam!

 

My local Lotus dealer is asking ADM so I'm out.

 

Yup, even those who can afford them easily my thoughts on why RS anythings are so rare at track events, at least in the North West:

1) They are hard to get so go to the people who buy lots of cars and those people likely have a large fleet of other cars to drive, so just on the numbers they are likely to take something else every time they go to the track.
2) They are hard to replace because by the time it shows up even if you pile it into a wall on day one allocations are likely all over for getting a replacement.
3) In canada at least 1%ers don't have the kind of money where igniting 200k-300k on fire is no biggie. That's <0.1%er money IMO. Almost no one is a great driver so there is always risk of them running out of talent.

Then there is the people like me obviously who would cry if something bad happened on track. I'm tracking my GT4, but not the same way I track my 50k street car, and definitely not the same way i track my race car.

 

Hoenstly, not every single dealer out there are bad. Perhaps at times they just need constant reminders every now and then, like, "hey buddy. you know I gave you guys a deposit for this car before they announced it right?", "not to be like a menace but am I still first on the list or whatever? When is my turn for my allocation?"

Now worse comes to worse, you guys couldn't get a new allocation and has to go look for one in the secondary market. Is it really that bad? If you want one now, do you think you will still want one in 3 years, 5 years, 10 years down the road? Or you think you guys will move onto newer things? Ask yourself, do you guys want a GT4RS just because it's THE car to have right now, or you want it because you guys really wanted it.

Way back in 1993, Porsche announced the turbo 3.6, it was the fastest car out there. I was just a teenager with no means to afford one. Made it worse when I see the car in the movie Bad Boys. Almost 20 years later I finally have the means and time to go look for one, I spent 2 years trying to track down a good one. It's been in my garage for almost 6 years now. As for the 'Car and Coffee' crowd, they aren't a bad thing really. When I bought my 3.6, it has just under 30k miles on the clock. Averaged out to be less than 1400 miles a year. Car is in absolutely pristine condition. Sort of paid dearly for it back then, but no regrets as it is the car I had always wanted. I have turned down a couple very healthy offers already as I am not selling. Likely I might sell my 918 before selling the 3.6, but then again I ain't selling the 918 either.

 

At some point all these fancy modern "collector" species will become unfixable paperweights only good for museum displays. I guess every Podunk's car museum will have a Porsche GT at this rate.