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Yes the gains do require an "all-in" approach but on a NA engine the diminishing returns was always going to require turning over every stone. It may not be a pill everyone is willing to swallow but look at the total area under the curve! Check out that significant mid-range bump! These gains would be just as impactful as adding the header and pipes without a tune or new back box. I think trying to extract what is having the single biggest impact would be challenging and not entirely useful.. engines are tuned air pumps and every component should be optimized to work together, I think what Dundon has done here is likely approaching the limit to what can be done with the long-block and intake system Porsche provided us with. I overlapped Dundons results with my engine with the GT4RS and it is making identical power to the RS all the way up to 7000RPM after which the 4RS and its better intake manifold and such allow it to pull away slightly. I can't wait for my butt dyno to confirm
The time and resources to achieve what has been achieved with my car has already been done, all new customers can benefit from that
Dundon mentioned an exchange program for the new OAPs for existing customers, I will let them speak to what that means. I simply don't know.
I suspect we will get some proper sound clips from Dundon soon to help answer the other big question but Jamie's initial feedback was extremely positive during his first test drive (ok, his opinion may be a bit biased, but from what I can hear with my own ears I suspect he and I will share the same opinion) There are some driving clips that he shared during the Dundon podcast last Friday (both at the beginning and end) The team also go into a lot of detail over the work they put into getting this dialed in:
As you and I both know, it is nearly impossible to capture the acoustics in video . . . that said, the TONE does sound good and the decibels I am sure are fine simply from the headers/OAPs. THE most important thing, from experience, is the apparent lack of drone. Drone ruins EVERYTHING.
I am sure you are going to be smiling from ear to ear partner . . . I was going to say 'all the way to the bank,' but that seemed not to be the best choice of words given Dundon involement 🤣
Just for some greater context on how these results stack up to what Dundon has measured on both a stock GT4RS and the same one equipped with their GT4RS exhaust (no tune obviously)...
For the record I created these comparison plots (on my own) in photoshop simply by taking both sets of plots and stretching as necessary to get the scales to line up. I made sure this was done to within the pixel resolution... I then did some layer masking just to make sure the curves could be clearly overlayed... I'm doing this simply to draw attention to how impressive the gains are with the complete Dundon GT4 setup
My hope going into this was simply see if closing the gap to the stock 4RS engine output was possible and on balance I think that was achieved. The stock 4RS engine still has more peak power, but when looking at the overall power output it looks like the total area under the curve, and usable power from the Dundon GT4 engine is right there... the Dundon GT4 engine is pulling much bigger numbers between 3000-5000RPM which is a very handy RPM range to be making power.
Once the 4RS is fitted with the Dundon exhaust package the mid-range advantage largely disappears and the extra top end power is unquestionable, the RS engine remains the king...
This is how I look at the latest results from Dundon, I'm sure I'll be corrected by them or others if I'm misrepresenting the data...
Just for some greater context on how these results stack up to what Dundon has measured on both a stock GT4RS and the same one equipped with their GT4RS exhaust (no tune obviously)...
For the record I created these comparison plots (on my own) in photoshop simply by taking both sets of plots and stretching as necessary to get the scales to line up. I made sure this was done to within the pixel resolution... I then did some layer masking just to make sure the curves could be clearly overlayed... I'm doing this simply to draw attention to how impressive the gains are with the complete Dundon GT4 setup
My hope going into this was simply see if closing the gap to the stock 4RS engine output was possible and on balance I think that was achieved. The stock 4RS engine still has more peak power, but when looking at the overall power output it looks like the total area under the curve, and usable power from the Dundon GT4 engine is right there... the Dundon GT4 engine is pulling much bigger numbers between 3000-5000RPM which is a very handy RPM range to be making power.
Once the 4RS is fitted with the Dundon exhaust package the mid-range advantage largely disappears and the extra top end power is unquestionable, the RS engine remains the king...
This is how I look at the latest results from Dundon, I'm sure I'll be corrected by them or others if I'm misrepresenting the data...
You built a GREAT GT4 . . . but not a GT4RS
Along the lines of 'the whole does not add up to the sum of the parts' when making comparisons
I joke with you, but I think there is truth in my comments when I say you may be happy with the GT4 you have built - and should be - but will not be satisfied until you own a RS
I am going to assume the new muffler sounds fantastic - tone and decibels - and nominal drone. As far as I can interpret from your comments, it seems to me any interested GT4 owner would be required to get headers/OAP, muffler and tune. Right off the bat we are looking at 9K to get the headers/OAPs. The GT4RS V11 muffler is listed at 9K, which I suspect will be the cost for the GT4 (same muffler). Throw in the cost of the Dundon tune and shop time, and you are well north of 20K. I never underestimate how much enthusiasts are willing to dump into their rides, but very curious how many owners will pursue this offering?
Along the lines of 'the whole does not add up to the sum of the parts' when making comparisons
I joke with you, but I think there is truth in my comments when I say you may be happy with the GT4 you have built - and should be - but will not be satisfied until you own a RS
I am going to assume the new muffler sounds fantastic - tone and decibels - and nominal drone. As far as I can interpret from your comments, it seems to me any interested GT4 owner would be required to get headers/OAP, muffler and tune. Right off the bat we are looking at 9K to get the headers/OAPs. The GT4RS V11 muffler is listed at 9K, which I suspect will be the cost for the GT4 (same muffler). Throw in the cost of the Dundon tune and shop time, and you are well north of 20K. I never underestimate how much enthusiasts are willing to dump into their rides, but very curious how many owners will pursue this offering?
Along the lines of 'the whole does not add up to the sum of the parts' when making comparisons
I joke with you, but I think there is truth in my comments when I say you may be happy with the GT4 you have built - and should be - but will not be satisfied until you own a RS
I am going to assume the new muffler sounds fantastic - tone and decibels - and nominal drone. As far as I can interpret from your comments, it seems to me any interested GT4 owner would be required to get headers/OAP, muffler and tune. Right off the bat we are looking at 9K to get the headers/OAPs. The GT4RS V11 muffler is listed at 9K, which I suspect will be the cost for the GT4 (same muffler). Throw in the cost of the Dundon tune and shop time, and you are well north of 20K. I never underestimate how much enthusiasts are willing to dump into their rides, but very curious how many owners will pursue this offering?
Avera
Kidding well received...
Honestly, the point of doing all this was to eliminate the "desire" for the GT4RS and at this point I would say: mission accomplished.
I don't really know how many people would be willing to go down the rabbit hole as far as I did, but honestly I think that producing power levels that on balance neutralize the RS advantage for the price Dundon is likely going to sell the complete package for is still a bargain, and a very attractive option for existing GT4 owners looking to close that gap, without having to buy a new car. As peoples cars start to near the end of their warranty periods, the number of people willing to take the plunge is also likely going to increase a lot.
This has always been a hobby for me where I like to see what is possible and am very pleased to have played a part in this exploration with Dundon. I clearly didn't do the work, but glad I helped facilitate it.
I do drive a Macan (and did sell my GT4) . . . your point?
Avera
I think the point is you should never have sold your GT4 and continued to wait for Dundon to wrap up this work (Kidding here... Let's keep this thread on point).
Just for some greater context on how these results stack up to what Dundon has measured on both a stock GT4RS and the same one equipped with their GT4RS exhaust (no tune obviously)...
For the record I created these comparison plots (on my own) in photoshop simply by taking both sets of plots and stretching as necessary to get the scales to line up. I made sure this was done to within the pixel resolution... I then did some layer masking just to make sure the curves could be clearly overlayed... I'm doing this simply to draw attention to how impressive the gains are with the complete Dundon GT4 setup
My hope going into this was simply see if closing the gap to the stock 4RS engine output was possible and on balance I think that was achieved. The stock 4RS engine still has more peak power, but when looking at the overall power output it looks like the total area under the curve, and usable power from the Dundon GT4 engine is right there... the Dundon GT4 engine is pulling much bigger numbers between 3000-5000RPM which is a very handy RPM range to be making power.
Once the 4RS is fitted with the Dundon exhaust package the mid-range advantage largely disappears and the extra top end power is unquestionable, the RS engine remains the king...
This is how I look at the latest results from Dundon, I'm sure I'll be corrected by them or others if I'm misrepresenting the data...
Thanks for taking the plunge on this and for being willing to share your results with the community!
The results look great, and I think that your qualitative assessment is reasonable for someone debating whether or not to spend another ~$100k for a 4RS and then still have to spend additional money to get the exhaust note up to par.
For someone who really wants a mid engined manual, the calculus here becomes even better.
curious to see what their final offering winds up being and whether or not it can be fit into the budget
Wow that’s sounds truly horrible imo. To each their own.
Very much entitled to your opinion and sound is one of those things that simply isn't worth arguing over. That said, I do believe that Dundon themselves are not completely happy with how the sound was captured during this little blast and they may try to get something recorded that better represents. I haven't heard it myself yet, but I've been so far pleased with what I've heard. Of course hearing it in person is the best way to know. If they can't get that done before the car is loaded on a trailer I will definitely put some effort into getting more recordings, which I would have done regardless. You may still not like it, but that's totally cool with me (to each their own ) Cheers!
Very much entitled to your opinion and sound is one of those things that simply isn't worth arguing over. That said, I do believe that Dundon themselves are not completely happy with how the sound was captured during this little blast and they may try to get something recorded that better represents. I haven't heard it myself yet, but I've been so far pleased with what I've heard. Of course hearing it in person is the best way to know. If they can't get that done before the car is loaded on a trailer I will definitely put some effort into getting more recordings, which I would have done regardless. You may still not like it, but that's totally cool with me (to each their own ) Cheers!
You are correct Doug . . . we all know 'sound' is completely subjective AND it is nearly impossible to appreciate tone and decibels via a YT video.
I already know the decibels are great due to the headers/OAPs because I have experienced first-hand on my GT4.
As far as tone goes, I commented above that is 'sounds good.'. Did it really sound good in the Dundon video? I honestly did not have strong feelings one way or the because, again, nearly impossible to appreciate via video. Nonetheless, no foundation or value in stating it sounded bad . . . only you will know how it sounds and if you like it once appreciated in person.
What is not subjective, and I did express opinion, is the cost of the project. Still, nobody will be forced to pursue the path you have traveled with Dundon. As you state, just another option on the market, and options are good.
Car arrived back from Dundon today (thanks to them for getting the car back to me as quickly as possible once they wrapped up what they needed from it)... First impressions are that I absolutely love the look this gives the car - perfect!
Took it out for a 30min drive to get calibrated with how the car responded to all the work... wow... the mid-range gains were much more impactful than I would had expected, the car is properly fast once the tach crosses 3500RPM - it just goes... I really love the tone and intensity coming from the exhaust on full beans, the car finally has "that" sound. Driving around town at light engine loads is moderately louder than it was with the OE muffler is also a big plus while the amount of boominess is very well regulated.
Dundon definitely hit the sweet spot with this setup. I'm sure those that take the plunge and go all in will be happy they did.
06-26-2024, 09:08 PM
(Kidding here... Let's keep this thread on point).
) Cheers!
