Originally Posted by JCtx

In the US. Didn't know Porsche could get away building more GT cars, but if that's the case, then I understand. I don't feel the GT4 and Spyder were true GT cars (just souped-up GTS 4.0s indeed), so not a big loss indeed. The GTS 4.0 is probably a more appealing model in both cases (coupe and convertible). And in a way, glad Porsche is increasing production of GT cars, to bring down (or eliminate) the ridiculous markups dealers are still getting away with. But the bad news is for owners who paid them, since prices should come down dramatically. Interesting times.

Originally Posted by JCtx

In the US. Didn't know Porsche could get away building more GT cars, but if that's the case, then I understand. I don't feel the GT4 and Spyder were true GT cars (just souped-up GTS 4.0s indeed), so not a big loss indeed. The GTS 4.0 is probably a more appealing model in both cases (coupe and convertible). And in a way, glad Porsche is increasing production of GT cars, to bring down (or eliminate) the ridiculous markups dealers are still getting away with. But the bad news is for owners who paid them, since prices should come down dramatically. Interesting times.

Originally Posted by KingSize.Hamster

Access to chargers is a challenge for many, and in that case, either their lifestyle has to change or they should just keep ICE cars. EVs are not for everyone.

however, it is great for me as I have easy access to a charger. I have never ran into problems as it’s extremely rare I need to drive for longer distance than a full charge.

ICE drivetrains just need more work. The EVs have so little wear and tear parts relatively. My family has a Model X, and it’s still on the original battery and everything except for suspension after about 100,000miles. Put an ICE in there, the cost of all the fluids and other random parts would have cost a lot more, and the car would have spent a lot more in the shop repairing. The only thing that EVs tend to rack up a higher bill on is the tires, especially with the Tesla. it almost felt like the suspension is fundamentally flawed and has messed up design. The outside of the tires wear out disproportionally quicker compared to other cars at home— alignment was checked and all that

I don’t care about the instant torque from an acceleration perspective. I have a iX1. It does 0-60mph in some 5.5 seconds or whatever. I don’t think I have done anything more than 50pcf of accelerator since day one, and most of the time I just do 20-30pct max. Where EVs really shine is the smooth acceleration, and the totally precise/accurate accelerator response especially on BMWs. The instant torque is huge for comfort as I am able to control things far better and more accurately around town. Many passengers, including extremely picky ones, have made complements about how comfortable the ride is in my iX1. I live in a hilly area with a lot of tighter turns. The mix of lower center of gravity, regen on coasting downhill, and extremely linear and predictable throttle response all add up to a much more comfortable ride. My kids are extremely fussed about ride quality, and they have no clue what is an EV. The pretty much think all other cars are dizzy after sitting in the iX1, which is the lowest model from BMW. It’s not even using premium suspension that iX uses.

I agree on the Tesla observation. Unfortunately, many think it’s cool to put the accelerator to the floor all the time. Another problem is because EVs have such low center of gravity, often times you don’t notice roll on the car. So drivers probably think the car has a lot more to go before grip is gone, but clearly not the case especially with such a heavy car.. On top of that the acceleration is just too easily accessible with no sound and everything else to scare you. Another problem is Tesla calls the modes “comfort” and “standard” or something for the accelerator. The car defaults to “standard”, which is far too aggressive in response. They should have named it “comfort” and “sport”, while defaulting to comfort mode. Average drivers are just not patient enough to feather the accelerator to achieve better comfort and safety. Teslas really aren't the greatest EVs out there. The suspension really isn't the most comfortable out there.

EVs don’t need more room to stop. For the same speed, using same distance, the passengers are feeling less of a jolt/brake dive as well. The whole ride experience is just better. EVs don’t have an issue with brakes under normal circumstance, it’s just people driving those teslas are pushing way beyond the limit. These guys would still crash when driving a 3000lbs car instead of a 4500lbs EV. It’s only because things are so quiet and the acceleration is no sound, no feedback, and nothing to scare the driver.

Originally Posted by JCtx

I don't feel the GT4 and Spyder were true GT cars (just souped-up GTS 4.0s indeed), so not a big loss indeed.

Originally Posted by JCtx

It's basically the same engine, same transmission (just with a shorter shifter, that you can retrofit to the others), same interior, same suspension, all with minor changes. It's just marketing IMO, but to each his own.

Originally Posted by JCtx

…same suspension...

Originally Posted by JCtx

It's basically the same engine, same transmission (just with a shorter shifter, that you can retrofit to the others), same interior, same suspension, all with minor changes. It's just marketing IMO, but to each his own. And yes, I drove one, and the same day as a GT2RS and GT3RS (although not hard at all, since they weren't mine). It didn't feel special to me, to be a true GT car. Might be in the minority, but that's my opinion. Sorry. And yes, I bet a GT4RS probably drives the best, even if it's not the fastest GT car. Shame it's not made in manual anymore, since true GT manual transmissions/shifters (with rod linkages, not cable ones) are sublime.

Originally Posted by JCtx

It's basically the same engine, same transmission (just with a shorter shifter, that you can retrofit to the others), same interior, same suspension, all with minor changes. It's just marketing IMO, but to each his own. And yes, I drove one, and the same day as a GT2RS and GT3RS (although not hard at all, since they weren't mine). It didn't feel special to me, to be a true GT car. Might be in the minority, but that's my opinion. Sorry. And yes, I bet a GT4RS probably drives the best, even if it's not the fastest GT car. Shame it's not made in manual anymore, since true GT manual transmissions/shifters (with rod linkages, not cable ones) are sublime.

Originally Posted by Xxyion

Interesting points. But i also wonder if your point about the maintenance after 100k miles might be a bit colored based on your car history? (of which i dont know what it is). 3 of my first cars were hondas and all had close to 200k miles by the time i had parted with them. Granted used...but still the point is they lasted (and kept going) well past the 100k mark and all i was doing was regular oil changes which at the time costed me 60$ a year? With tire wear as bad as it is on Teslas thats a much more steep yearly cost. But at the same time they dont really make Hondas like they used to so maybe theres that.

Originally Posted by JCtx

EVs are great city cars, but that's about it. And they only make sense if you can charge them at home IMO. Sooner, rather than later, there will be long lines to charge them if they keep selling, as the charging infrastructure is just not there yet. I bought a new '21 Tesla M3 LR for my wife, and we were heavily disappointed at all the disadvantages we didn't know about, and issues with the car. And I did quite a bit of research. But fortunately, we used it for 1-yr/10K-miles, and sold it for a total profit (including TTL, all accessories, and a 240V home charger) of $3K+, so basically we got paid to try it for a year. We traveled 3 times with it, and it was awful (free supercharging). That's when we knew it was strictly a city car, which wasn't the use we had for it. We're not going to consider any EV again, until battery technology becomes much better... if it ever does. Our only chance in the short term is Toyota having success with their solid-state experiment due next year. In the mean time, just ICE 4-cyl cars, which are the most efficient possible.

Originally Posted by JCtx

It's basically the same engine, same transmission (just with a shorter shifter, that you can retrofit to the others), same interior, same suspension, all with minor changes. It's just marketing IMO, but to each his own. And yes, I drove one, and the same day as a GT2RS and GT3RS (although not hard at all, since they weren't mine). It didn't feel special to me, to be a true GT car. Might be in the minority, but that's my opinion. Sorry. And yes, I bet a GT4RS probably drives the best, even if it's not the fastest GT car. Shame it's not made in manual anymore, since true GT manual transmissions/shifters (with rod linkages, not cable ones) are sublime.