ATC Trailer - Bad Customer Service, Please Help!
11-10-2017, 04:50 PM
#1
ATC Trailer - Bad Customer Service, Please Help!
I'm a former GT4 owner and have posted in the past in this section and have received wonderful advice. I'm hopeful that folks can help me resolve my current issue. Has anyone custom ordered a trailer from ATC? I'm having a very bad experience with them currently and am looking for advice from this group on how to potentially solve my problem.
First, here's a little background about my situation. I spent the last couple months planning to build a 24 foot custom trailer to be built by ATC. Throughout this process I was very clear to explain that tongue weight was critical to me so that I could pull this trailer with SUVs that have lower (600 lbs.) tongue weight limits.
In addition, I was clear to identify the SUVs that I would be towing this trailer with and even emailed them a specific list of the SUVs when we agreed on the trailer design. In addition, I repeatedly asked for the tongue weight on the trailer and they refused to ever provide this information to me during the planning or production process. In fact, early in the process I had them move a bunch of items off the tongue of the trailer because of concerns over too much tongue weight. In addition, just before final sign off I indicated that the trailer still seemed to have too much weight on the tongue and reminded ATC that they agreed to perform a tongue weight analysis by their engineers before we signed off. As a result of this they moved the trailer axle 6 inches forward (as much as physically possible). Still being concerned, I again raised the tongue weight issue and indicated that I was still concerned about the tongue weight. In response, I was told to let the engineers do their job and that moving the axle had fixed any issues.
The trailer was supposed to be picked up tomorrow morning and I indicated earlier this week that I would be picking the trailer up with one of the specified SUVs that had a tongue weight limit of 616 lbs. In response, a couple days before delivery they told me that the tongue weight was 1108 lbs with the trailer empty!!! With this tongue weight I can't tow the trailer with any of the specified SUVs even empty!
I had a call with the engineer on my trailer once I figured this out and he indicated that he had screwed up and that my trailer wasn't even within their own specifications for tongue weight. He confirmed that it would not be able to be towed by any of the SUVs that I specified. I then got shifted over to a Stephanie Miller at ATC who suggested that we add weight to the rear of this aluminium trailer to attempt to fix the tongue weight problem. Obviously this wasn't appealing to me and I asked them to move items (generator, AC, etc) that were built into the trailer around to held adjust for the high tongue weight which I maintained should have been done from the start. It appears that they are refusing to do this as well.
Does anyone have any other suggestions for how to deal with this tongue weight issue - other than adding weight to the rear, moving around items in the trailer, or moving the axle? Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated because I would really like to try to figure out a way to resolve this problem. ATC seems not to care much about solving the problem for some reason and is appearing to try to strong arm me into purchasing the trailer even with their own engineers admission that he messed things up. They have really provided disappointing customer service. Thanks for any thoughts.
First, here's a little background about my situation. I spent the last couple months planning to build a 24 foot custom trailer to be built by ATC. Throughout this process I was very clear to explain that tongue weight was critical to me so that I could pull this trailer with SUVs that have lower (600 lbs.) tongue weight limits.
In addition, I was clear to identify the SUVs that I would be towing this trailer with and even emailed them a specific list of the SUVs when we agreed on the trailer design. In addition, I repeatedly asked for the tongue weight on the trailer and they refused to ever provide this information to me during the planning or production process. In fact, early in the process I had them move a bunch of items off the tongue of the trailer because of concerns over too much tongue weight. In addition, just before final sign off I indicated that the trailer still seemed to have too much weight on the tongue and reminded ATC that they agreed to perform a tongue weight analysis by their engineers before we signed off. As a result of this they moved the trailer axle 6 inches forward (as much as physically possible). Still being concerned, I again raised the tongue weight issue and indicated that I was still concerned about the tongue weight. In response, I was told to let the engineers do their job and that moving the axle had fixed any issues.
The trailer was supposed to be picked up tomorrow morning and I indicated earlier this week that I would be picking the trailer up with one of the specified SUVs that had a tongue weight limit of 616 lbs. In response, a couple days before delivery they told me that the tongue weight was 1108 lbs with the trailer empty!!! With this tongue weight I can't tow the trailer with any of the specified SUVs even empty!
I had a call with the engineer on my trailer once I figured this out and he indicated that he had screwed up and that my trailer wasn't even within their own specifications for tongue weight. He confirmed that it would not be able to be towed by any of the SUVs that I specified. I then got shifted over to a Stephanie Miller at ATC who suggested that we add weight to the rear of this aluminium trailer to attempt to fix the tongue weight problem. Obviously this wasn't appealing to me and I asked them to move items (generator, AC, etc) that were built into the trailer around to held adjust for the high tongue weight which I maintained should have been done from the start. It appears that they are refusing to do this as well.
Does anyone have any other suggestions for how to deal with this tongue weight issue - other than adding weight to the rear, moving around items in the trailer, or moving the axle? Any thoughts on this would be much appreciated because I would really like to try to figure out a way to resolve this problem. ATC seems not to care much about solving the problem for some reason and is appearing to try to strong arm me into purchasing the trailer even with their own engineers admission that he messed things up. They have really provided disappointing customer service. Thanks for any thoughts.
11-10-2017, 07:45 PM
#2
Something here doesn't sound right. REF
I can't see where a 6" axle movement and the addition of options would raise the tongue weight that high. The trailer already weighs 3000+ lbs, the car ?000 lbs and you need 10% - 15% tongue weight for stability. Based on your SUV allowables you couldn't be more than 6160 lbs total weight loaded with options and junk to get to the minimum 10% and at 4106 lbs for 15%.
Based on those numbers you can't blame ATC completely and need to take some responsibility yourself.
I can't see where a 6" axle movement and the addition of options would raise the tongue weight that high. The trailer already weighs 3000+ lbs, the car ?000 lbs and you need 10% - 15% tongue weight for stability. Based on your SUV allowables you couldn't be more than 6160 lbs total weight loaded with options and junk to get to the minimum 10% and at 4106 lbs for 15%.
Based on those numbers you can't blame ATC completely and need to take some responsibility yourself.
11-11-2017, 01:34 PM
#3
But knowing the tongue weight restriction shouldn’t they have just recommended another lighter weight trailer design? Why even start the process with a trailer that won’t meet that limit loaded under most circumstances?
11-11-2017, 01:47 PM
#4
Woah, yeah - there is a first principle here that was a non starter before anyone drilled a hole. As ExMB states, you need a % of the total weight of the trailer to be on the tongue for stability reasons. In my experience, it's pretty critical, and I typically put as much as possible on the tongue because, at least on my X5, it is much more stable at high speed. They usually say 10-15%. It's not a matter of balance, it's a matter of control. If you are pulling 6000lbs around, in order to control it well, you need the center of gravity in a certain place, and not to mention that the SUV hitch and rear axle have limits.
Car + stuff needs 3500-4000lb, and a ATC trailer is 3000lb+, so already there is no possible way to get that behind a german SUV, even if the SUV is rated at 7700lb - that's not the limit, it's the tongue weight/rear axle load. I'm pushing what is possible on our X5 with a 20ft trailex.
I've seen some guys pulling 24ft ATC behind cayennes, but they seem to know better than the engineers about the weight limits of their equipment.
Someone posted this video a while back that nicely articulates the problem.
Solution = Truck
Car + stuff needs 3500-4000lb, and a ATC trailer is 3000lb+, so already there is no possible way to get that behind a german SUV, even if the SUV is rated at 7700lb - that's not the limit, it's the tongue weight/rear axle load. I'm pushing what is possible on our X5 with a 20ft trailex.
I've seen some guys pulling 24ft ATC behind cayennes, but they seem to know better than the engineers about the weight limits of their equipment.
Someone posted this video a while back that nicely articulates the problem.
Solution = Truck
Last edited by ShakeNBake; 11-11-2017 at 09:53 PM.
11-11-2017, 06:23 PM
#5
Drifting
One of the truck-based SUVs might get him there. Tahoe, for instance, will tow 8600 with a 1000# tongue weight.
Of course, he's not looking to replace his SUV. But to your point (and others) it sounds like he simply wants too big a trailer for the SUV he has/wants to have.
Garvish, I hope you've replaced the GT4 with an Atom or Lotus 7.
Of course, he's not looking to replace his SUV. But to your point (and others) it sounds like he simply wants too big a trailer for the SUV he has/wants to have.
Garvish, I hope you've replaced the GT4 with an Atom or Lotus 7.
11-13-2017, 01:06 PM
#6
Rennlist Member
I raised this issue as well, as my ATC is ~1800 tongue weight on the scales unloaded....ATC refused to help me too.
I was always hesitant to post my experience, but I probably should to try and avoid things like this.
That said, loaded, I can get mine down to ~1450, which, while still high, is a car, onan gen set, 3 batteries, full cabinets, etc, etc....
I was always hesitant to post my experience, but I probably should to try and avoid things like this.
That said, loaded, I can get mine down to ~1450, which, while still high, is a car, onan gen set, 3 batteries, full cabinets, etc, etc....
11-13-2017, 04:42 PM
#7
Quit Smokin'
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
It definitely sounds like you need more truck, plain and simple. I almost always tow under 5,000 lbs, and now that I've been towing it with a truck rated for 13k, I would never go back to towing at the limit of a light truck or SUV. It's not worth the risk. As for any blame on the trailer company.... they probably should have just told you they couldn't do it. That would probably be the most honest thing they could have done instead of selling you a trailer you can't use..... unless they were trying to tell you that and you weren't understanding.
I would also consider trying to understand the load limit of the rear axle of the SUV, it may not be readily available if its not really a towing vehicle. Once you understand the rear axle limitations you may be able to safely install airbags or other helper springs on the back of the SUV. That would kill several birds with one stone. They also make those bars that apply pure twist right at the hitch, I forget what it's called, load distribution or something
You really do not want to be towing around a heavy trailer with light tongue weight. It is not a recipe for a safe / enjoyable trip.
edit:
https://www.etrailer.com/faq-weightdistribution.aspx
I would also consider trying to understand the load limit of the rear axle of the SUV, it may not be readily available if its not really a towing vehicle. Once you understand the rear axle limitations you may be able to safely install airbags or other helper springs on the back of the SUV. That would kill several birds with one stone. They also make those bars that apply pure twist right at the hitch, I forget what it's called, load distribution or something
You really do not want to be towing around a heavy trailer with light tongue weight. It is not a recipe for a safe / enjoyable trip.
edit:
https://www.etrailer.com/faq-weightdistribution.aspx
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11-13-2017, 06:16 PM
#8
You contracted with them to build a trailer to a certain specification. They did not meet that obligation. I would say you have no obligation to purchase the trailer.
I'd look elsewhere and get confirmation they can do what you want up front.
And even if the trailer weighs 4000#, that is 28% on the tongue. They most certainly messed up bad.
I'd look elsewhere and get confirmation they can do what you want up front.
And even if the trailer weighs 4000#, that is 28% on the tongue. They most certainly messed up bad.
11-13-2017, 06:42 PM
#9
You contracted with them to build a trailer to a certain specification. They did not meet that obligation. I would say you have no obligation to purchase the trailer.
I'd look elsewhere and get confirmation they can do what you want up front.
And even if the trailer weighs 4000#, that is 28% on the tongue. They most certainly messed up bad.
I'd look elsewhere and get confirmation they can do what you want up front.
And even if the trailer weighs 4000#, that is 28% on the tongue. They most certainly messed up bad.
Although towing with a truck is preferable, those comments miss the issue - the manufacturer here didn't produce what OP wanted. Whether his choice of vehicle is ideal for towing doesn't matter. If they couldn't build his specifications as he requested, they shouldn't have agreed to do so.
11-14-2017, 10:17 AM
#11
Drifting
Although towing with a truck is preferable, those comments miss the issue - the manufacturer here didn't produce what OP wanted. Whether his choice of vehicle is ideal for towing doesn't matter. If they couldn't build his specifications as he requested, they shouldn't have agreed to do so.
In other words, the position is, basically, "What you want can't safely be done. So whether you deal with ATC or move on to another company, the problem still exists: namely, you want to pull too much car and trailer with too little truck."
11-14-2017, 01:09 PM
#12
They don't "miss the issue" so much as go on past the "fussing about whether to pay for the trailer or not -- that's been addressed by others" and move right to the "so now what?" question implicit in the thread itself.
In other words, the position is, basically, "What you want can't safely be done. So whether you deal with ATC or move on to another company, the problem still exists: namely, you want to pull too much car and trailer with too little truck."
In other words, the position is, basically, "What you want can't safely be done. So whether you deal with ATC or move on to another company, the problem still exists: namely, you want to pull too much car and trailer with too little truck."
11-14-2017, 03:44 PM
#13
Drifting
Cheers!
11-14-2017, 06:20 PM
#14
I love this forum as there is always helpful information being shared. Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful input. I especially liked the video that ShakeNBake included. I sure don't want that to happen!
All that said, I understand from my salesman that ATC has acknowledged that they messed this up and are currently working with their engineers to redesign the trailer to get the tongue weight down per our discussions.
Also, just to be clear I have a Ford F250 to tow the trailer when it is loaded but for various reasons I need one of the SUVs to tow it when it's largely empty and that is something that was discussed in agonizing detail throughout the design process.
One other option I've been considering is a weight distributing hitch. If ATC can get the tongue weight down to 750 lbs and then I use a weight distributing hitch that should work, right? Anyone's thoughts on that would be much appreciated.
All that said, I understand from my salesman that ATC has acknowledged that they messed this up and are currently working with their engineers to redesign the trailer to get the tongue weight down per our discussions.
Also, just to be clear I have a Ford F250 to tow the trailer when it is loaded but for various reasons I need one of the SUVs to tow it when it's largely empty and that is something that was discussed in agonizing detail throughout the design process.
One other option I've been considering is a weight distributing hitch. If ATC can get the tongue weight down to 750 lbs and then I use a weight distributing hitch that should work, right? Anyone's thoughts on that would be much appreciated.
11-14-2017, 07:39 PM
#15
I love this forum as there is always helpful information being shared. Thanks to everyone for all of the helpful input. I especially liked the video that ShakeNBake included. I sure don't want that to happen!
All that said, I understand from my salesman that ATC has acknowledged that they messed this up and are currently working with their engineers to redesign the trailer to get the tongue weight down per our discussions.
Also, just to be clear I have a Ford F250 to tow the trailer when it is loaded but for various reasons I need one of the SUVs to tow it when it's largely empty and that is something that was discussed in agonizing detail throughout the design process.
One other option I've been considering is a weight distributing hitch. If ATC can get the tongue weight down to 750 lbs and then I use a weight distributing hitch that should work, right? Anyone's thoughts on that would be much appreciated.
All that said, I understand from my salesman that ATC has acknowledged that they messed this up and are currently working with their engineers to redesign the trailer to get the tongue weight down per our discussions.
Also, just to be clear I have a Ford F250 to tow the trailer when it is loaded but for various reasons I need one of the SUVs to tow it when it's largely empty and that is something that was discussed in agonizing detail throughout the design process.
One other option I've been considering is a weight distributing hitch. If ATC can get the tongue weight down to 750 lbs and then I use a weight distributing hitch that should work, right? Anyone's thoughts on that would be much appreciated.