I may have been wrong about the Taycan
10-19-2021, 10:43 AM
#16
RL Community Team
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On the highway my Taycan can go 400ish km a full charge, my Panamera turbo S can do 800+km on a full tank and a full charge. Night and day difference especially on long road trips. A stop for the Panamera is 5 mins. A stop for the Taycan is 20min+ minutes. On a 800km road trip, that extra stop of 20mins means 40+km difference. For a say 10 hour driving day, that's 100+km less covered. Real world difference means getting to the destination for dinner and a good night sleep before heading out, vs getting to the destination late and try and find charger then rush to sleep and rush to get out again in the morning.
But between the Taycan and my Exclusive turbo S, in the city, the Taycan has more range, more comfortable seating, can deal with bumps and potholes better. Spirited driving in the mountains at 6/10th 7/10th not much difference. The fun factor I would dare say is about par. Sound department could also be a wash also, not much sound from the EV unless I enable the Sport Sound, but 911 turbo Ss aren't known for great sounding exhaust either.
But between the Taycan and my Exclusive turbo S, in the city, the Taycan has more range, more comfortable seating, can deal with bumps and potholes better. Spirited driving in the mountains at 6/10th 7/10th not much difference. The fun factor I would dare say is about par. Sound department could also be a wash also, not much sound from the EV unless I enable the Sport Sound, but 911 turbo Ss aren't known for great sounding exhaust either.
On our drive from Houston to Colorado, taking an EV would mean the difference between arriving before lunch on Day 2 to barely making dinner on Day 2. Big difference when you're travelling to a vacation destination.
10-19-2021, 12:17 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I agree with most - but I also tend to think people underestimate the gas station stop - I've been timing my fill up's recently for the Cayenne - 20 gallons - no particular pattern or time of day - timing is from ignition "off" to back in car and ignition "on" - no extra stuff like bath room break or buying snacks which I would do a trip…so how long does it take to get 18-20 gallons? based on actual data?
Sept 16th - 11 min
Sept. 29th - 9 min
Oct. 12th - 14 min
Oct. 18th - 12 min
now compare that to my Sept. 23rd stop in willows with the Taycan - where I charged from 4% SOC to 88% SOC in 22 min - but I also hit the bath room and got some food - so the car was ready before I way (my stop + activities took longer than it took to charge the car)
the gas timings above also don't account for any "waiting in line" which I've also done.
I'm going to call anything in the 15 min to 30 min range a "wash" when traveling - I can easily "kill/occupy/spend" 30 min on a stop even at a gas station - and even when I'm trying I can't get a full fill up to take much less than 10 min - so we'll call the fast charging stop 10 min longer than a 10 min fill up - 2 fast charging stops a day is 20 min "extra" time vs. gas car - and you've driven 750 miles in those two stops - that's the different between arriving at 6:00 pm or 6:20 pm…I'm simply not seeing how that's really a hassle
what _IS_ a hassel is spending 40 min on the phone with an EA customer service rep to get the charging station to activate!!!!! But when it works and it will work eventually - I"m not sure how adding 20 min to a 750 mile trip really makes that much of a difference.
750 miles / 63 mph avg speed = 11:54 hh:mm hours driving + 10 min gas stop = total time 12:04 hh:mm duration
750 miles / 63 mph avg speed = 11:54 hh:mm Horus driving + 2 x fast charging stops = 12:34 hh:mm duration - 1/2 hour…and I get to drive an EV…personally I lose more time to other things vs. 30 min across 12 1/2 hour duration.
but I guess I'm silly.
Sept 16th - 11 min
Sept. 29th - 9 min
Oct. 12th - 14 min
Oct. 18th - 12 min
now compare that to my Sept. 23rd stop in willows with the Taycan - where I charged from 4% SOC to 88% SOC in 22 min - but I also hit the bath room and got some food - so the car was ready before I way (my stop + activities took longer than it took to charge the car)
the gas timings above also don't account for any "waiting in line" which I've also done.
I'm going to call anything in the 15 min to 30 min range a "wash" when traveling - I can easily "kill/occupy/spend" 30 min on a stop even at a gas station - and even when I'm trying I can't get a full fill up to take much less than 10 min - so we'll call the fast charging stop 10 min longer than a 10 min fill up - 2 fast charging stops a day is 20 min "extra" time vs. gas car - and you've driven 750 miles in those two stops - that's the different between arriving at 6:00 pm or 6:20 pm…I'm simply not seeing how that's really a hassle
what _IS_ a hassel is spending 40 min on the phone with an EA customer service rep to get the charging station to activate!!!!! But when it works and it will work eventually - I"m not sure how adding 20 min to a 750 mile trip really makes that much of a difference.
750 miles / 63 mph avg speed = 11:54 hh:mm hours driving + 10 min gas stop = total time 12:04 hh:mm duration
750 miles / 63 mph avg speed = 11:54 hh:mm Horus driving + 2 x fast charging stops = 12:34 hh:mm duration - 1/2 hour…and I get to drive an EV…personally I lose more time to other things vs. 30 min across 12 1/2 hour duration.
but I guess I'm silly.
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10-19-2021, 12:43 PM
#18
I notice that too when filling my gas car. There is no such thing as a 5 minute fill-up. There is a 5 minute top-off when you are just adding half, quarter or less of a tank of gas to your car, but on any long trips the time to fill up plus getting any drinks/snacks is always well over any claimed 5 minutes. Notice I did not even include any washroom time.
Earl Colby Pottinger (BEVs lover)
Earl Colby Pottinger (BEVs lover)
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10-19-2021, 02:21 PM
#19
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The general idea would be for a charging session to be ~10 mins to be a wash for comparison for fuel stops. We getting there. The new e-Tron GT can do 0-50% in 10 mins.
But infrastructure still lagging behind however. For a normal car road trip, one just hop in and go. But for a EV road trip, one has to plan in advance, spending minutes or hours before the trip to map out the route along chargers, also might need to check if those chargers are operational. Then there is the distance part, one would want to space out the chargers as far away as possible just so the car arrives at a very low SoC to take advantage of faster charging. But it also means if that charger isn't operational, there a real risk of getting stranded as the car may not have the range to go to an alternate location. One also need to find destination charger once arrived at the destination, as most would rather skip a charging stop just before the destination and the car will need to be charged before being used again. All these will needed to be carefully planned well in advance.
Some of those can be offloaded to the co-pilot along the way. But not all wives/gfs are that capable. Some are but not a given. A buddy may be able to, but also not a given.
But infrastructure still lagging behind however. For a normal car road trip, one just hop in and go. But for a EV road trip, one has to plan in advance, spending minutes or hours before the trip to map out the route along chargers, also might need to check if those chargers are operational. Then there is the distance part, one would want to space out the chargers as far away as possible just so the car arrives at a very low SoC to take advantage of faster charging. But it also means if that charger isn't operational, there a real risk of getting stranded as the car may not have the range to go to an alternate location. One also need to find destination charger once arrived at the destination, as most would rather skip a charging stop just before the destination and the car will need to be charged before being used again. All these will needed to be carefully planned well in advance.
Some of those can be offloaded to the co-pilot along the way. But not all wives/gfs are that capable. Some are but not a given. A buddy may be able to, but also not a given.
10-19-2021, 04:09 PM
#20
The general idea would be for a charging session to be ~10 mins to be a wash for comparison for fuel stops. We getting there. The new e-Tron GT can do 0-50% in 10 mins.
But infrastructure still lagging behind however. For a normal car road trip, one just hop in and go. But for a EV road trip, one has to plan in advance, spending minutes or hours before the trip to map out the route along chargers, also might need to check if those chargers are operational. Then there is the distance part, one would want to space out the chargers as far away as possible just so the car arrives at a very low SoC to take advantage of faster charging. But it also means if that charger isn't operational, there a real risk of getting stranded as the car may not have the range to go to an alternate location. One also need to find destination charger once arrived at the destination, as most would rather skip a charging stop just before the destination and the car will need to be charged before being used again. All these will needed to be carefully planned well in advance.
Some of those can be offloaded to the co-pilot along the way. But not all wives/gfs are that capable. Some are but not a given. A buddy may be able to, but also not a given.
But infrastructure still lagging behind however. For a normal car road trip, one just hop in and go. But for a EV road trip, one has to plan in advance, spending minutes or hours before the trip to map out the route along chargers, also might need to check if those chargers are operational. Then there is the distance part, one would want to space out the chargers as far away as possible just so the car arrives at a very low SoC to take advantage of faster charging. But it also means if that charger isn't operational, there a real risk of getting stranded as the car may not have the range to go to an alternate location. One also need to find destination charger once arrived at the destination, as most would rather skip a charging stop just before the destination and the car will need to be charged before being used again. All these will needed to be carefully planned well in advance.
Some of those can be offloaded to the co-pilot along the way. But not all wives/gfs are that capable. Some are but not a given. A buddy may be able to, but also not a given.
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XLR82XS (10-19-2021)
10-19-2021, 06:54 PM
#21
Agree with Dave that people overestimate the inconvenience of charging for an extra 10 minutes vs ICE re-fuel a few times per year and underweight the luxury of NEVER fueling up 10-15 minutes 25-50x per year. It's weird.
To the OP, the Taycan is an absolutely fantastic daily. Very comfortable (smooth, quiet, remote climate control for summer/winter), excellent driver (acceleration, steering, handling, braking). It is absolutely not a sports car. It's a heavy sport sedan. When on it you eventually feel the weight mid corner and in braking. Can't overcome physics.
My other car is a 718 Spyder. I am comfortable to DD the spyder (manual, buckets), so maybe that's why I think the taycan with air suspension is so comfortable.
I had a model 3 performance previously. Also a good car (tech and value per $ much higher), but not as good as the taycan. When i had that car and had to perform school bus duty for kids, I was always sad to drive off without the spyder. Not so with the taycan.
To the OP, the Taycan is an absolutely fantastic daily. Very comfortable (smooth, quiet, remote climate control for summer/winter), excellent driver (acceleration, steering, handling, braking). It is absolutely not a sports car. It's a heavy sport sedan. When on it you eventually feel the weight mid corner and in braking. Can't overcome physics.
My other car is a 718 Spyder. I am comfortable to DD the spyder (manual, buckets), so maybe that's why I think the taycan with air suspension is so comfortable.
I had a model 3 performance previously. Also a good car (tech and value per $ much higher), but not as good as the taycan. When i had that car and had to perform school bus duty for kids, I was always sad to drive off without the spyder. Not so with the taycan.
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10-19-2021, 09:31 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
Is it not far more useful to charge from 20% to 80% in many circumstances as this is the range of maximal charge rate? Yes you need to be in an area of multiple chargers but since the charging rate can drop from 80% to 100%, you can make better time by not charging to 100% at times.
When ABRP (https://abetterrouteplanner.com/) calculates a route, stops, and time per stop, by default it allocates five minutes per stop as overhead to find the charger and get things working. If you have to wait for a stall to become free because there are too few stalls, and/or some are broken, the time estimates go out the window.
Speaking of overnight stops, I always let the desk clerks and management know that one of the reasons I stay at their property is because of their EV charging stations. They are a great amenity and doesn't cost them much. Especially compared to amenities that I rarely, if ever, use - like their swimming pool. Even if they don't offer an official J1772 (or Tesla Destination) charging station, they can often find a 5-15 or 5-20 receptacle somewhere around the parking lot - which can provide some amount of overnight charging. In places with cold winters there are often receptacles where ICE car owners plug in their engine block heaters.
In fact the very first road trip my wife and I took in our Model 3, the inn we stayed at had a 5-20 receptacle in front of our parking spot. I used it with the 5-15 adapter and it was useful for the two nights we stayed there. If I had a 5-20 adapter, the extra power would have avoided the need for a Supercharging stop on our way back home. I've since purchased the 5-20 adapter for my UMC and have used it on other trips.
Last edited by whiz944; 10-19-2021 at 09:34 PM.
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10-20-2021, 01:32 AM
#23
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On the highway my Taycan can go 400ish km a full charge, my Panamera turbo S can do 800+km on a full tank and a full charge. Night and day difference especially on long road trips. A stop for the Panamera is 5 mins. A stop for the Taycan is 20min+ minutes. On a 800km road trip, that extra stop of 20mins means 40+km difference. For a say 10 hour driving day, that's 100+km less covered. Real world difference means getting to the destination for dinner and a good night sleep before heading out, vs getting to the destination late and try and find charger then rush to sleep and rush to get out again in the morning.
But between the Taycan and my Exclusive turbo S, in the city, the Taycan has more range, more comfortable seating, can deal with bumps and potholes better. Spirited driving in the mountains at 6/10th 7/10th not much difference. The fun factor I would dare say is about par. Sound department could also be a wash also, not much sound from the EV unless I enable the Sport Sound, but 911 turbo Ss aren't known for great sounding exhaust either.
But between the Taycan and my Exclusive turbo S, in the city, the Taycan has more range, more comfortable seating, can deal with bumps and potholes better. Spirited driving in the mountains at 6/10th 7/10th not much difference. The fun factor I would dare say is about par. Sound department could also be a wash also, not much sound from the EV unless I enable the Sport Sound, but 911 turbo Ss aren't known for great sounding exhaust either.
10-20-2021, 01:01 PM
#24
Rennlist Member
It probably won't make it in one go even if I do hypermiling, which is stupid to start with.
A charging stop at Hope, or Merritt is required. If I start off with a full charge, Merritt is where I would stop, Electrify Canada has 350kW chargers at both places. A little farther away, but shorter distance to the destination leaving me with enough charge to go cruising around the area. I could also pop by Kelowna for another 350kW top up before heading to Oliver. Petro-Can also have a network with 200kW or 350kW on the same stops.
There is a Flo 50kW charger a few minutes off the track, nothing faster however.
A charging stop at Hope, or Merritt is required. If I start off with a full charge, Merritt is where I would stop, Electrify Canada has 350kW chargers at both places. A little farther away, but shorter distance to the destination leaving me with enough charge to go cruising around the area. I could also pop by Kelowna for another 350kW top up before heading to Oliver. Petro-Can also have a network with 200kW or 350kW on the same stops.
There is a Flo 50kW charger a few minutes off the track, nothing faster however.
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MaxLTV (10-20-2021)
10-20-2021, 02:52 PM
#25
It's been said above, but I'll add my 2 cents as well: The Taycan is the overall best car I've ever owned. I own the Turbo S, but that's overkill. I've driven the standard variant as well, and the statement still applies.
I've owned a number of Porsches — from old 911s, to modern ones, to Macans and Cayennes too — and while some are technically more fun *at certain times* than than Taycan, nothing beats the Taycan overall *most of the time*. The Taycan is a rocket, handles incredibly well, has a comfortable ride when you want it, and looks the business. Range has never been an issue for me in real-world day-to-day use, but we do have an ICE car for true long-distance road trips.
We've also owned Teslas and currently own an Audi e-tron (SUV) as well, and I find the Taycan to be in a category all it's own.
Drive a Taycan, and you won't be disappointed. Live with one and it'll continue surprise you in ways you never anticipated, and impress you in ways you won't believe. I'm thrilled with mine.
Hope you have a similar experience with yours.
I've owned a number of Porsches — from old 911s, to modern ones, to Macans and Cayennes too — and while some are technically more fun *at certain times* than than Taycan, nothing beats the Taycan overall *most of the time*. The Taycan is a rocket, handles incredibly well, has a comfortable ride when you want it, and looks the business. Range has never been an issue for me in real-world day-to-day use, but we do have an ICE car for true long-distance road trips.
We've also owned Teslas and currently own an Audi e-tron (SUV) as well, and I find the Taycan to be in a category all it's own.
Drive a Taycan, and you won't be disappointed. Live with one and it'll continue surprise you in ways you never anticipated, and impress you in ways you won't believe. I'm thrilled with mine.
Hope you have a similar experience with yours.
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10-20-2021, 03:12 PM
#26
Race Director
sorry but 14 minutes to get 20 gallons? Must have been the slowest pump in history. I fill up my cayenne with 25 gallons consistently in under 10 minutes, easy.
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wcarson (10-24-2021)
10-20-2021, 03:25 PM
#27
RL Community Team
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It's been said above, but I'll add my 2 cents as well: The Taycan is the overall best car I've ever owned. I own the Turbo S, but that's overkill. I've driven the standard variant as well, and the statement still applies.
I've owned a number of Porsches — from old 911s, to modern ones, to Macans and Cayennes too — and while some are technically more fun *at certain times* than than Taycan, nothing beats the Taycan overall *most of the time*. The Taycan is a rocket, handles incredibly well, has a comfortable ride when you want it, and looks the business. Range has never been an issue for me in real-world day-to-day use, but we do have an ICE car for true long-distance road trips.
We've also owned Teslas and currently own an Audi e-tron (SUV) as well, and I find the Taycan to be in a category all it's own.
Drive a Taycan, and you won't be disappointed. Live with one and it'll continue surprise you in ways you never anticipated, and impress you in ways you won't believe. I'm thrilled with mine.
Hope you have a similar experience with yours.
I've owned a number of Porsches — from old 911s, to modern ones, to Macans and Cayennes too — and while some are technically more fun *at certain times* than than Taycan, nothing beats the Taycan overall *most of the time*. The Taycan is a rocket, handles incredibly well, has a comfortable ride when you want it, and looks the business. Range has never been an issue for me in real-world day-to-day use, but we do have an ICE car for true long-distance road trips.
We've also owned Teslas and currently own an Audi e-tron (SUV) as well, and I find the Taycan to be in a category all it's own.
Drive a Taycan, and you won't be disappointed. Live with one and it'll continue surprise you in ways you never anticipated, and impress you in ways you won't believe. I'm thrilled with mine.
Hope you have a similar experience with yours.
10-20-2021, 08:08 PM
#28
RL Community Team
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in NJ the attendant does the pumping and they usually are working many pumps at once.
it is certainly conceivable that it can take 15 minutes to get the ICE fueled.
have you ever been on the NJ Turnpike where than can be 8 cars ahead of you at each pump? 30 minutes can easily get wasted at those stations.
10-20-2021, 08:23 PM
#29
Rennlist Member
are you always able to pull up to the pump without waiting for another car to finish?
in NJ the attendant does the pumping and they usually are working many pumps at once.
it is certainly conceivable that it can take 15 minutes to get the ICE fueled.
have you ever been on the NJ Turnpike where than can be 8 cars ahead of you at each pump? 30 minutes can easily get wasted at those stations.
in NJ the attendant does the pumping and they usually are working many pumps at once.
it is certainly conceivable that it can take 15 minutes to get the ICE fueled.
have you ever been on the NJ Turnpike where than can be 8 cars ahead of you at each pump? 30 minutes can easily get wasted at those stations.
10-20-2021, 09:18 PM
#30
Rennlist Member
I simply reported my datda - timing as noted is from: ignition “off” to ignition “on” - between those two points simply fueling the vehicle no delay or activities - note however timing does include time to “activate” the pump - nothing as bad as EA - but sometimes pump activation can take 2 or 3 min alone - no congestion time was measured…simply time to pump the fuel and get back in the car.
people over state how “short” gas stops are by quite a margin - one 20-30 min fast charging stop once a day (550-600 miles driving) are really not a serious issue vs. 10 hours of seat time when distance driving - also you can do “other things” while you wait for the EV to charge since unlike gasoline it doesn’t require attendance.
I’ve filled my Taycan in 25 min or less several times and was rushing to finish a bathroom and snack purchase break the entire time - the car was ready before I was on multiple occassions
but yeah if 20-40 min extra time per-day is going to harsh your buzz take your gas car - personally I can barely stand gas cars anymore and much prefer virtually any EV to gas these days - smooth & quiet & quick - so the limited amount of extra time is a decent tradeoff IMHO - but I can understand people wanting to focus on the time factor - it is an obsession in our society…
but that’s just my $0.02
people over state how “short” gas stops are by quite a margin - one 20-30 min fast charging stop once a day (550-600 miles driving) are really not a serious issue vs. 10 hours of seat time when distance driving - also you can do “other things” while you wait for the EV to charge since unlike gasoline it doesn’t require attendance.
I’ve filled my Taycan in 25 min or less several times and was rushing to finish a bathroom and snack purchase break the entire time - the car was ready before I was on multiple occassions
but yeah if 20-40 min extra time per-day is going to harsh your buzz take your gas car - personally I can barely stand gas cars anymore and much prefer virtually any EV to gas these days - smooth & quiet & quick - so the limited amount of extra time is a decent tradeoff IMHO - but I can understand people wanting to focus on the time factor - it is an obsession in our society…
but that’s just my $0.02
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 10-20-2021 at 09:24 PM.
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