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Out of curiosity, does anyone have a $ number for R & Ring the Taycan's battery? The 8 year/100k mile warranty is nice, but since there is no option for an extended warranty, what is the expense for swapping out the battery?
Out of curiosity, does anyone have a $ number for R & Ring the Taycan's battery? The 8 year/100k mile warranty is nice, but since there is no option for an extended warranty, what is the expense for swapping out the battery?
Thanks in advance.
Bill of material for Porsche right now is somewhere between $14k to $18k for the whole 93kWh battery. Multiply that by 2.
However this is going to be substantially cheaper in the coming years.
If one module fails, there is no need to replace the whole pack. And a single module costs much less. There are 33 modules in there. That's $400 - $500 BoM, expect retail price over $1k each.
Bill of material for Porsche right now is somewhere between $14k to $18k for the whole 93kWh battery. Multiply that by 2.
However this is going to be substantially cheaper in the coming years.
If one module fails, there is no need to replace the whole pack. And a single module costs much less. There are 33 modules in there. That's $400 - $500 BoM, expect retail price over $1k each.
Labor cost? The battery pack looks deeply integrated into the body chassis, so could be significant labor effort to do the R & R.
Labor cost? The battery pack looks deeply integrated into the body chassis, so could be significant labor effort to do the R & R.
Not much, battery comes off easily. Replacing parts on an ICE engine is much more complex. I guess 2-3 hours for a module replacement plus they might have to balance the pack (which takes some time but it's automated).
there is not a lot of evidence batteries NEED to be replaced - they just over time will hold less kWh's - as long as the range works for your daily needs it shouldn't be an issue - and I'd venture it's same/cheaper than a PDK transmission - or the drive train parts for a AWD panamera - and the time frame/longevity is about the same - my money's on the battery to last longer.
also most EV's so far the battery isn't that big a deal - 2-3 hours for Tesla to remove, Bolt can be done in about 3 hours (to remove), I'm guessing while it's tightly integrated it's removable like dropping an engine in Porsche's case…which my local mechanics do all the time with 911's and Boxster when they need to work on the top of the engine - the only issue is you'll probably need a proper "lift" to lower/raise the battery - it's weight is the main issue.
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 03-06-2020 at 05:57 PM.
data from Tesla's show 10-15% is worse case with a majority of batteries doing much better in terms of capacity loss - I would anticipate Porsche is more conservative and therefore hope for even less capacity loss with Porsche's superior engineering skills and superior thermal managment system
Last edited by daveo4porsche; 03-06-2020 at 06:19 PM.
data from Tesla's show 10-15% is worse case with a majority of batteries doing much better in terms of capacity loss - I would anticipate Porsche is more conservative and therefore hope for even less capacity loss with Porsche's superior engineering skills and superior thermal managment system
Lot of data points out to around 100,000 km (80,000 miles), but beyond is a bit sparse. Battery replacement cost at this point is a bit speculative. Porsche could eliminate a lot of uncertainty by offering an extended (CPO?) warranty, but that isn't in the cards at the moment. Worst case, an owner has to factor in a battery replacement as part of their total cost of ownership.
Not much, battery comes off easily. Replacing parts on an ICE engine is much more complex. I guess 2-3 hours for a module replacement plus they might have to balance the pack (which takes some time but it's automated).
Porsche/VAG will probably limit availability of individual packs to dealers for at least the next 8 years. So, need to factor in the Porsche tax into the replacement cost.
there is not a lot of evidence batteries NEED to be replaced - they just over time will hold less kWh's - as long as the range works for your daily needs it shouldn't be an issue - and I'd venture it's same/cheaper than a PDK transmission - or the drive train parts for a AWD panamera - and the time frame/longevity is about the same - my money's on the battery to last longer.
also most EV's so far the battery isn't that big a deal - 2-3 hours for Tesla to remove, Bolt can be done in about 3 hours (to remove), I'm guessing while it's tightly integrated it's removable like dropping an engine in Porsche's case…which my local mechanics do all the time with 911's and Boxster when they need to work on the top of the engine - the only issue is you'll probably need a proper "lift" to lower/raise the battery - it's weight is the main issue.
That could be a significant limitation until the aftermarket offers a transmission-like jack with the capacity to handle the battery pack. If memory serves, most transmission jacks are rated to around 1,000 to 1,500 lbs,. while the battery pack is around 2,500-ish lbs.
That could be a significant limitation until the aftermarket offers a transmission-like jack with the capacity to handle the battery pack. If memory serves, most transmission jacks are rated to around 1,000 to 1,500 lbs,. while the battery pack is around 2,500-ish lbs.
"home mechanics" can do it with a regular 2 post car lift. Just lower the car on a wooden frame that can hold the battery, remove bolts, lift up the car, battery remains on the wooden frame, open up battery, and the same thing in reverse order. Also I expect used modules will be available from wrecks in 1 or 2 years.
As mentioned, there is very little chance that the battery needs any maintenance before 200k miles or 8 years.
As noted in the other thread, it will not make any kind of economic sense to replace the battery pack. Sell the car and buy a new one instead of lighting $40+K on fire to maintain an 8 year old first generation relic. For the vast majority of people you’re only looking at 10% degradation by 150,000 miles.
if you’re worried about those few % then don’t use DC fast charging more than absolutely necessary, don’t charge over 80-85% and don’t let the battery discharge completely. Prevention cheaper than cure ...
As noted in the other thread, it will not make any kind of economic sense to replace the battery pack. Sell the car and buy a new one instead of lighting $40+K on fire to maintain an 8 year old first generation relic. For the vast majority of people you’re only looking at 10% degradation by 150,000 miles.
if you’re worried about those few % then don’t use DC fast charging more than absolutely necessary, don’t charge over 80-85% and don’t let the battery discharge completely. Prevention cheaper than cure ...
What about the scenario where a low mileage (~7,000/year) car's battery fails at around the 9th year? 61,000 miles is not exactly the point to dump a car at. With a failed battery, the resale value is going to be about $40,000 less than what the car would otherwise bring. First gen of the car is also going to depress the resale value.
There are circumstances where it makes more sense to 'light $40+K on fire' than to go out an drop another $160+K. If everything else is in good condition, I would rather drop $40+K than $160+K.
What about the scenario where a low mileage (~7,000/year) car's battery fails at around the 9th year? 61,000 miles is not exactly the point to dump a car at. With a failed battery, the resale value is going to be about $40,000 less than what the car would otherwise bring. First gen of the car is also going to depress the resale value.
There are circumstances where it makes more sense to 'light $40+K on fire' than to go out an drop another $160+K. If everything else is in good condition, I would rather drop $40+K than $160+K.
there’s no evidence this happens across the Tesla fleet after 300,000 units and 8 years. These types of batteries degrade proportionally to mileage and charging behavior, not merely “old”. Batteries also degrade, they don’t fail. If you were the exceptional case, you’d insist it was a manufacturing defect they are still liable for.
the math just doesn’t work. If you drop $160K on a new one, you’ve cashed out the old one and saved the $40K replacement and ended up with an asset worth probably $140K. That’s in the ballpark of a $100k down, at 3% interest. Your net assets are $20K or so better buying new. Would you put an additional $40k in maintenance on a 9 yro Carrera ? That’s an sentimental decision, not economic.
don’t worry I’m sure someone will sell you extended warranty services in a few years.
data from Tesla's show 10-15% is worse case with a majority of batteries doing much better in terms of capacity loss
That same "data" from 350 unsubstantiated anonymous users also came up with the conclusion that "supercharging more frequently seems to be better for the battery than supercharging less frequently". I don't believe that Tesla would agree with that. LOL
What about the scenario where a low mileage (~7,000/year) car's PDK Transmission fails at around the 9th year? 61,000 miles is not exactly the point to dump a car at. With a failed PDK transmission, the resale value is going to be about $30,000 less than what the car would otherwise bring. First gen of the car is also going to depress the resale value.
TIFIFY…have you priced a PDK transmission replacement? Now which is more likely to fail? Mechanical transmission or solid-state battery?
you can say the above statement about any major drive train component - if it breaks out of warranty it's going to be expensive to fix.
03-06-2020, 05:11 PM
Cost to replace Taycan's battery?
