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What personal attack - there wasn't one - simply pointing out a number of facts.
Just because you keep repeating them doesn't make them facts. In fact, you didn't seem to refute any of the actual facts that I actually posted above.
Originally Posted by groundhog
(1) You are a Tesla owner and you're not interested in buying the Taycan (seems you've changed your mind).
.
I am a Tesla owner. I've always been interested in the Taycan. Nice try.
Originally Posted by groundhog
(2) You and your buddy post ad infinitum - pretty much the same comments in every thread
.
We post a lot because we are excited by this product. Again, if you actually took the time to read, you'd see they aren't the same comments, and they aren't out of line with what other people are posting.
Originally Posted by groundhog
(3) Your friend Alex - posted his review from Denmark (the Porsche reveal which Stout is/was on)
(4) Stout and Catchpole have not posted their reviews because they have respected the requested embargo. Ethics, integrity and excellence.
My friend Alex is a journalist and doing his job; and did not break any embargo. He merely is posting the same exact type of review found here. Only difference was it's on location. Alex is a pro, he's been doing this a long time. He knows what an embargo is and how to respect it. Nice cheap shot. Want to take a crack at this video, which tells the same story? Oh, you won't, because it's done by Henry Catchpole.
(5) There are many of us that are not really interested in Tesla - simply don't like the quality of their product and how they drive much like a lot of GM and Ford products - you and your mate making the same observations time and again isn't going to change that (or the spiv and spin associated with Tesla).
The entire press talks about Tesla when they talk about the Taycan. Litereally, almost every single article and video mentions Tesla. As do many posters here. Yet you seem to only have a problem with when Dave and I do it, because we are Tesla owners. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Those things you mention are your personal problem, not anything that I am saying, or many journalists are also saying.
Also, drive like GM and Ford products? Have you ever even driven a Tesla? Doesn't seem like it. I'll give you the interior quality is down there (I once called my Model 3 somewhere between a Civic and an Accord for interior parts quality. But drive?
Originally Posted by groundhog
(6) There are many of us here that are genuinely interested in the Taycan - we can see where they are coming from, specifically from a drivers perspective e.g. delivering a true performance EV with dynamic handling and stopping power.
Ah yes, more personal insults. I can't possibly be genuinely interested in the Taycan, and I can't possibly understand the driver's perspective, nor can I understand performance, dynamic handling and stopping power. Got it.
Originally Posted by groundhog
(7) Likewise from a technical perspective the 800V architecture has significant advantages over 400V architecture, its a straightforward matter of physics
The main advantage I see so far is the reduction of heat allowing the repeated performance. This is significant. Charging advantage? Insignificant at this point, even compared to the ETron with the same pack size on the same charger. . 0-60? Also insignificant at this point. And also, it's actually more of a problem of thermodynamics, not physics.
Originally Posted by groundhog
(8) Likewise there were other nice engineering and design touches - particularly in and around the motors - quality engineering and finish. The point being there are plenty of us that see this and understand the ifs and whys.
I don't think you're any more qualified to comment on the quality of the engineering of the motors than I am. As for the fit and finish, I have repeatedly said that the Taycan will be far superior in fit, finish, steering, and suspension to any Tesla produced. Go ahead and find where I said opposite. And having friends in the automotive industry, including at several OEM's, I understand the challenges and costs associated with that fit and finish far better than your average punter. But thanks for trying to, again, insult me.
Originally Posted by groundhog
It's of no interest to me if you or your mate can or can't afford a Taycan - but as sure as eggs are eggs the people that whinge the most about pricing are the people that generally have to stretch to buy the product - the game has shifted and there is a new way cooler toy in town - pay to play. Its immaterial whether its a house, a car or a TV - you see the same behaviours. In contrast there are some of us that see the proposition in the round, much like art or good architecture and are happy to pay the entry price. Just because you can't see it doesn't invalidate the latter view point.
Ah, but it must be of interest to you because you continually bring it up as a point. And again, in this very sentence, you challenge me to "pay to play", signaling you think I can't afford a Taycan.
Originally Posted by groundhog
Finally, you and old friend use the language of virtue signallers and you do it all the time e.g. labelling people "deniers" and "haters" simply because they disagree with your relative positions. Thats not debate, however it's very much a tool of the various shout down movements and in this forum it has descended to the level of other EV forums including the many new arrivals along with their first posts.
Ah, yes, because I've never presented you a fact to invalidate your argument. Wrong. I have responded to your every accusation and point, with facts, and what you come back with is what you accuse me of - labeling and broad brushing while not addressing any facts at all. Just re-read the paragraph you wrote.
Originally Posted by groundhog
In fact the Taycan is the first EV I've been interested in, hence I'm not interested in endless discussions about Tesla vehicles or the politics of climate change (as opposed to the science of climate variation through time). Like many on here I understand the difference between a science based point of view and a political position and can equally understand the difference between a spec sheet and a quality product. I'm after the latter as I suspect are many others.
Again more labeling. You're stating your intellectual superiority by stating "like many on here, I understand the difference..." implying, quite clearly, that I don't. What is most laughable about this argument, aside from the fact that it's exactly the behavior you claim not to be doing, is that I have never ONCE participated in any kind of climate change discussion on here. Like you, I'm not interested in it either. Go and find where I participated in one of those discussions. I haven't because I don't care.
Originally Posted by groundhog
The embargo lifts in one day - I'm sure there will be plenty of interesting reviews, in all likelihood they will be positive.
Let it play out.
I am. You're the one who started this nonsense by posting this bunch of insulting accusations:
Originally Posted by groundhog
See the Stout and Catchpole threads. The quality reviews will land there.
Dont want to mix up quality and integrity with teslarati or electrek and besides, I and I assume others, want to see reviews that are open and honest done by credible people.
We dont need filters applied by you or others - thanks in advance 😀
Also, I'm sure the reviews will all be positive. Or did you miss the multiple times I posted that as well?
Just because you keep repeating them doesn't make them facts. In fact, you didn't seem to refute any of the actual facts that I actually posted above.
I am a Tesla owner. I've always been interested in the Taycan. Nice try.
We post a lot because we are excited by this product. Again, if you actually took the time to read, you'd see they aren't the same comments, and they aren't out of line with what other people are posting.
My friend Alex is a journalist and doing his job; and did not break any embargo. He merely is posting the same exact type of review found here. Only difference was it's on location. Alex is a pro, he's been doing this a long time. He knows what an embargo is and how to respect it. Nice cheap shot. Want to take a crack at this video, which tells the same story? Oh, you won't, because it's done by Henry Catchpole.
The entire press talks about Tesla when they talk about the Taycan. Litereally, almost every single article and video mentions Tesla. As do many posters here. Yet you seem to only have a problem with when Dave and I do it, because we are Tesla owners. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. Those things you mention are your personal problem, not anything that I am saying, or many journalists are also saying.
Also, drive like GM and Ford products? Have you ever even driven a Tesla? Doesn't seem like it. I'll give you the interior quality is down there (I once called my Model 3 somewhere between a Civic and an Accord for interior parts quality. But drive?
Ah yes, more personal insults. I can't possibly be genuinely interested in the Taycan, and I can't possibly understand the driver's perspective, nor can I understand performance, dynamic handling and stopping power. Got it.
The main advantage I see so far is the reduction of heat allowing the repeated performance. This is significant. Charging advantage? Insignificant at this point, even compared to the ETron with the same pack size on the same charger. . 0-60? Also insignificant at this point. And also, it's actually more of a problem of thermodynamics, not physics.
I don't think you're any more qualified to comment on the quality of the engineering of the motors than I am. As for the fit and finish, I have repeatedly said that the Taycan will be far superior in fit, finish, steering, and suspension to any Tesla produced. Go ahead and find where I said opposite. And having friends in the automotive industry, including at several OEM's, I understand the challenges and costs associated with that fit and finish far better than your average punter. But thanks for trying to, again, insult me.
Ah, but it must be of interest to you because you continually bring it up as a point. And again, in this very sentence, you challenge me to "pay to play", signaling you think I can't afford a Taycan.
Ah, yes, because I've never presented you a fact to invalidate your argument. Wrong. I have responded to your every accusation and point, with facts, and what you come back with is what you accuse me of - labeling and broad brushing while not addressing any facts at all. Just re-read the paragraph you wrote.
Again more labeling. You're stating your intellectual superiority by stating "like many on here, I understand the difference..." implying, quite clearly, that I don't. What is most laughable about this argument, aside from the fact that it's exactly the behavior you claim not to be doing, is that I have never ONCE participated in any kind of climate change discussion on here. Like you, I'm not interested in it either. Go and find where I participated in one of those discussions. I haven't because I don't care.
I am. You're the one who started this nonsense by posting this bunch of insulting accusations:
Also, I'm sure the reviews will all be positive. Or did you miss the multiple times I posted that as well?
I'm weary of this discussion.
Four points and only four -
(1) your buddy broke the embargo - he posted a video from the Porsche reveal - non the less you flipped it for him.
(2) you and your other buddy always use the language of virtue signallers "deniers" "haters"
(3) if you can or can't afford a Taycan thats your problem - no amount of whinging will change the price tag
(4) I asked you to butt out - period - get over it - because I'm sick and tired of hearing the same stuff, regurgitated in every thread
Leave it alone and let the reviews play out. You may even enjoy them.
(1) your buddy broke the embargo - he posted a video from the Porsche reveal - non the less you flipped it for him.
(2) you and your other buddy always use the language of virtue signallers "deniers" "haters"
(3) if you can or can't afford a Taycan thats your problem - no amount of whinging will change the price tag
(4) I asked you to butt out - period - get over it - because I'm sick and tired of hearing the same stuff, regurgitated in every thread
Leave it alone and let the reviews play out. You may even enjoy them.
Not your place to tell me whether to butt out. YOU get over it. There's something called the ignore feature that you're always welcome to use.
As for the rest, I don't know what to say. I'm done arguing with a brick wall.
Last edited by Needsdecaf; 09-23-2019 at 12:18 PM.
Oh no! The Braun razor from the 992 found its way into the Taycan
LOL, yup. But on an EV, I personally think it's fine. I sat in a 992 and "flicked" it. Seems unsatisfying there, probably because it's still in the center console.
Do you remember what time it was? I was searching through some of the info and can't recall what time. Would be nice if it was midnight CET to get some stuff tonight but I seem to recall it being during the day on 9/24. Can't find where I read that though.
Do you remember what time it was? I was searching through some of the info and can't recall what time. Would be nice if it was midnight CET to get some stuff tonight but I seem to recall it being during the day on 9/24. Can't find where I read that though.
Could be 6:01 am:
Alex said: "So be sure to set your Alarm for 6:01 AM Eastern Time, on Tues September 24th". So that may, should be the official time, 6:01 am (shrugs)?
I'm sure European Mags (if they tested it yet) may broadcast earlier. Yeah. Maybe, the big US car mags may not care and do the same?
Either way: We should at least see reviews when we wake up tomorrow morning. LOL
I bet the US car mags and blogs will dump the info at midnight German time. Might start seeing reviews starting at 5pm.
Originally Posted by CarMaven
Could be 6:01 am:
Alex said: "So be sure to set your Alarm for 6:01 AM Eastern Time, on Tues September 24th". So that may, should be the official time, 6:01 am (shrugs)?
I'm sure European Mags (if they tested it yet) may broadcast earlier. Yeah. Maybe, the big US car mags may not care and do the same?
Either way: We should at least see reviews when we wake up tomorrow morning. LOL
Ah. 6:00 AM Eastern is 12:00 Noon CET. So I would suspect that the Euro mags will all go live at that time as well. Was hoping it was midnight CET and that I could watch them tonight instead of tomorrow. Oh well, soon enough.
09-23-2019, 10:28 AM
