Tesla existential threat?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 813
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From: California
RL Community Team
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,381
Likes: 2,911
From: The Woodlands, TX.
Originally Posted by acoste
Comedy for the ignorant only. Who know little about physics or quality control and ignore Elon's lies because they have faith in him.
I'm still laughing on those who think Tesla's quality control is on par with others.
I'm still laughing on those who think Tesla's quality control is on par with others.
Meanwhile the people who have a major axe to grind by thinking that they are enlightening people still miss no opportunity to post bad news about Tesla. On a non Tesla forum. And bearing no relevance to forum they are actually on.
Have to ask why.
Last edited by Needsdecaf; Sep 14, 2020 at 09:47 AM.
Race Director
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 10,235
Likes: 1,986
From: Hypercar Invitational
Bc they are moles for tesla shorts planted on automotive forums all over the internet to seek out and influence the people who fit in the vent diagram of gearheads who like to post on forums and also could be persuaded to short TSLA.
Obvi.
Obvi.
RL Community Team
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Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,381
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From: The Woodlands, TX.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 813
Likes: 137
From: California
I have no financial interest in TSLA in any direction.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 813
Likes: 137
From: California
and this is a very typical behavior here from all of you.. attack the messenger.
I said Elon lied to people about the FSD demo, made them believe in 2017 it is right around the corner. He also said during the SolarCity presentation that all the presented solar tiles are working prototypes. Which was a lie as well. Similar to Milton's rolling truck.
And you guys attack me. Why don't you attack Elon instead?
I said Elon lied to people about the FSD demo, made them believe in 2017 it is right around the corner. He also said during the SolarCity presentation that all the presented solar tiles are working prototypes. Which was a lie as well. Similar to Milton's rolling truck.
And you guys attack me. Why don't you attack Elon instead?
Last edited by acoste; Sep 14, 2020 at 01:04 PM.
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 9,381
Likes: 2,911
From: The Woodlands, TX.
and this is a very typical behavior here from all of you.. attack the messenger.
I said Elon lied to people about the FSD demo, made them believe in 2017 it is right around the corner. He also said during the SolarCity presentation that all the presented solar tiles are working prototypes. Which was a lie as well. Similar to Milton's rolling truck.
And you guys attack me. Why don't you attack Elon instead?
I said Elon lied to people about the FSD demo, made them believe in 2017 it is right around the corner. He also said during the SolarCity presentation that all the presented solar tiles are working prototypes. Which was a lie as well. Similar to Milton's rolling truck.
And you guys attack me. Why don't you attack Elon instead?
On Tesla's new EPA range:
Here's the thing....changing the 'range' of the car without changing anything which affects the range in the real world, i.e. a physical change, is just all whistling in the dark. The car has the same batteries, the same motors, the same everything, but Tesla keeps claiming that the range is "increasing".
I find this to be a load of crap, honestly. Just as the Taycan seems to easily beat it's EPA range in real world, the Tesla's struggle to meet their EPA range in real world conditions.
I find this to be a load of crap, honestly. Just as the Taycan seems to easily beat it's EPA range in real world, the Tesla's struggle to meet their EPA range in real world conditions.
In fact, DaveO sold his Model 3 and bought a Taycan to move further out of Elon's sphere of influence. Tesla's are far from perfect, and they're also far from the perfect car for many people. But despite this, we acknowledge the positives that go along with the negatives. You don't seem to. Comparing Nikola, which has yet to produce a single customer unit and seems to be not much more than a Ponzi scheme, to Tesla / Elon, which has delivered hundreds of thousands of working customer units is a completely unfair comparison.
Elon should be held to task for his "hyperbole" for sure. FSD is, to me, way, way oversold. And Tesla's service, flat out, sucks. 100% there are fanbois, and to be honest, they freaking drive me NUTS. Some of the stuff that comes out of their mouths is just, well, flat out idiotic. But the cars are a real product, which many people enjoy, and are actually damn good cars for what they are. People enjoy them, I mean really enjoy driving them. I would think that would be worth considering.
Last edited by Needsdecaf; Sep 14, 2020 at 01:49 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 107
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Instead of always criticizing and attacking Elon, why not give him credit for all he's done for the EV (and also space industry) industry. Has he created tens of thousands of jobs? Yes. Has he pushed other automotive manufacturers to speed up their pace of EV development? Yes. Is he building state-of-the-art factories around the world that are creating sustainable transport? Yes.
Sure, he makes exaggerations and has overly optimistic timelines but that guy has accomplished more than 99.9% than most people ever will. Not sure where the hatred comes from.
Sure, he makes exaggerations and has overly optimistic timelines but that guy has accomplished more than 99.9% than most people ever will. Not sure where the hatred comes from.
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Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,514
Likes: 4,929
From: Santa Cruz, CA
and his fast charging network actually works as compared to Electify america - elon has many flaws, and I like many call out his lies - he lies all lthe time - but he also accomplishes - all the time - Elon is a complex individule with less than perfect form - and Tesla needs to improve in many dimensions - but they are far from 100% fail that you continuously paint them to be…lack of balance in your observations on a forum that you don’t own the brand is the reason you lack credibility.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 813
Likes: 137
From: California
Instead of always criticizing and attacking Elon, why not give him credit for all he's done for the EV (and also space industry) industry. Has he created tens of thousands of jobs? Yes. Has he pushed other automotive manufacturers to speed up their pace of EV development? Yes. Is he building state-of-the-art factories around the world that are creating sustainable transport? Yes.
Sure, he makes exaggerations and has overly optimistic timelines but that guy has accomplished more than 99.9% than most people ever will. Not sure where the hatred comes from.
Sure, he makes exaggerations and has overly optimistic timelines but that guy has accomplished more than 99.9% than most people ever will. Not sure where the hatred comes from.
Race Car
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 4,243
Likes: 103
From: SoCal
Bill Gates’ recent post about electric vehicles contained a number of interesting insights about his views on electrification.
While the Microsoft co-founder noted that EVs present an ideal solution for short-haul travel, he argued that battery-electric vehicles
will probably never be a practical solution for heavy-duty machinery like 18-wheelers. This makes vehicles like the Tesla Semi inherently flawed,
at least according to the tech visionary.
While the Microsoft co-founder noted that EVs present an ideal solution for short-haul travel, he argued that battery-electric vehicles
will probably never be a practical solution for heavy-duty machinery like 18-wheelers. This makes vehicles like the Tesla Semi inherently flawed,
at least according to the tech visionary.
The problem is that batteries are big and heavy. The more weight you’re trying to move, the more batteries you need to power the vehicle.
But the more batteries you use, the more weight you add—and the more power you need. Even with big breakthroughs in battery technology,
electric vehicles will probably never be a practical solution for things like 18-wheelers, cargo ships, and passenger jets.
Electricity works when you need to cover short distances, but we need a different solution for heavy, long-haul vehicles,” Gates wrote.
But the more batteries you use, the more weight you add—and the more power you need. Even with big breakthroughs in battery technology,
electric vehicles will probably never be a practical solution for things like 18-wheelers, cargo ships, and passenger jets.
Electricity works when you need to cover short distances, but we need a different solution for heavy, long-haul vehicles,” Gates wrote.
With this in mind, the tech visionary explained that cheap alternative fuels would be a much better option than all-electric vehicles for long-haul travel.
Gates noted that there are several types of these alternative fuels, though he took a particular focus on biofuels and electrofuels.
The Microsoft co-founder explained that biofuels today are far different than the biofuels of the past such as ethanol. He added that some
biofuels could be drawn from plants that aren’t grown for food, and some could even be used in existing engines without requiring any modifications.
However, challenges remain with the rollout of biofuels for long-haul travel.
Gates noted that there are several types of these alternative fuels, though he took a particular focus on biofuels and electrofuels.
The Microsoft co-founder explained that biofuels today are far different than the biofuels of the past such as ethanol. He added that some
biofuels could be drawn from plants that aren’t grown for food, and some could even be used in existing engines without requiring any modifications.
However, challenges remain with the rollout of biofuels for long-haul travel.
Last edited by Lorenfb; Sep 14, 2020 at 06:27 PM.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,514
Likes: 4,929
From: Santa Cruz, CA
I tend to agree with Bill - and have posted as much on this and other threads - I think if we simply got our DD's to be EV based - you could keep your long haulers fossil fuel or alternative fuel based - we don't need to be 100% EV to make progress in this space…
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 6,514
Likes: 4,929
From: Santa Cruz, CA
I honestly believe a lot of Tesla "fanboi's" are confusing their love for a decent/good EV with a love for Tesla - at the moment that confusion is understandable as Tesla is clearly the leader in EV's and has strong offerings - but as time progresses the lover for EV will remain but Tesla's role in that affection can be given it's proper place…I think a lot of Tesla fan boy's wold temper their defense of Tesla if the attacks were not also co-mingled with anti-EV sentiment…
there are several things here:
1. love of EV' and progress in this space
2. Tesla's role as a disrupter
3. Elon's role as ring leader of his sketchy circus
4. and the ongoing reticence of the legacy industry to show any actual progress in this space
Elon has pro's and cons (a lot of con's), Tesla has pro's/con's, EV's have pro's/con's - supporters and detractors do a **** poor job actually indicating their target and everything tends to get swept as pro everything or con-everything…
discussion in this space actually requires some nuance - but as we know people don't do nuance.
there are several things here:
1. love of EV' and progress in this space
2. Tesla's role as a disrupter
3. Elon's role as ring leader of his sketchy circus
4. and the ongoing reticence of the legacy industry to show any actual progress in this space
Elon has pro's and cons (a lot of con's), Tesla has pro's/con's, EV's have pro's/con's - supporters and detractors do a **** poor job actually indicating their target and everything tends to get swept as pro everything or con-everything…
discussion in this space actually requires some nuance - but as we know people don't do nuance.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 813
Likes: 137
From: California
https://insideevs.com/features/44431...st-final-data/
Last edited by acoste; Sep 16, 2020 at 02:54 PM.
Pro
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 573
Likes: 127
From: Germany
this below depreciated a bit over 30%. which is good but nothing close to the 10% mentioned in the quoted article above
https://insideevs.com/features/44431...st-final-data/
https://insideevs.com/features/44431...st-final-data/
--> https://insideevs.com/features/39003...wnership-cost/
TRUE Cost of a Tesla Model 3 After 40,000 Miles!
....My insurance costs about $2,000 per year for my Model 3 + my wife’s car. But since I’m saving almost $150/month on fuel, my fuel savings basically pays for my insurance which is cool. I paid a $500 deductible to get my bumper replaced. Also 2 of my 3 speeding tickets I’ve ever gotten have come since getting my Model 3 so that’s one con about owning such a quick car. So I invested in a $200 cordless radar detector. I’ve also spent about $150 on various Model 3 accessories including floor mats, console wrap, and screen protector. I paid around $900 to get a NEMA 14-50 outlet installed which isn’t a requirement for all Tesla owners. Some can get by with a normal outlet. Another optional expense was $1,700 to get the front of my Model 3 wrapped in a paint protection film because I drive so much and plan to keep the car for a long time. I also use my Model 3 for business purposes (Uber, Lyft, YouTube videos, driving to job sites, etc) so my business mileage deductions so far have actually saved me about $4,500 in taxes. That’s pretty amazing, considering this is virtually a maintenance-free car that doesn’t require gas. That’s how much it has cost me to own and drive my Model 3 during its first 40,000 miles. It's one of the best purchases I’ve ever made!
....
Last edited by H.F.B.; Sep 16, 2020 at 04:11 PM.