orthojoe

So I'm planning on taking full advantage of my bucket seats and getting a set of 6 point harnesses installed before my next track day for the spyder. Can someone clue me in on a few things:

1) Schroth harness: Lots of choices. Which one is the one to get? Profi II-6? I wasn't planning on getting a HANS device. Reccs on where to buy?

2) BK submount bars: Reccs on where to buy?

3) Any tips on installation?

Thanks!

Dr.Bill

1) It's the Schroth GT3 harness you want. It has the fittings to attach to the seat.

2) I got my sub mounts and harnesses from Suncoast. I'm sure there are other places, but I've got Suncoast on speed dial now.

3) It's really fairly simple. The instructions provided are pretty good and there are a couple DIY threads around. One tip - slide the seat all the way forward and remove the rear mounting bolts first. Then slide the seat back and remove the front ones. Otherwise it can be hard to slide the seat back once the rails are disconnected - it's a fairly strong spring!
I disconnected the battery when I installed the seats and harnesses. Not sure it's totally necessary, just keep the key out of the ignition.
There is one wiring harness on the driver seat to remove and two on the passenger seat. The easiest thing to do is have the top off, fold the seat and tilt it back to remove the wiring harness.
Take the seat out of the car to install the harness mount and the straps. Also, adjust the sub strap length with the seat out of the car - much easier than with it in the car!
The shoulder straps just wrap around the cross member of the roll bar. You will need to pop out and store the little mesh things.

A couple helpful articles:
http://www.planet-9.com/reviews/caym...tallation.html
http://gallery.rennlist.com/gallery/album651

I think it took me an hour and a half or so and I was moving fairly slow. It took less than an hour to remove the seats and harnesses and put the stock sport seats back in. I did not disconnect the battery and got no warning lights. When I installed the seats, I disconnected the battery and had to have the dealer reprogram the car and get rid of the airbag warning.

Probably the second best thing I did to my Spyder! The best was the GT3 master cylinder swap for the brakes. Mine did come with the sport seats, so adding the sport buckets and harnesses was a huge improvement! If you already have the sport buckets, it will be better, but not that dramatic.

I have the seats, sub mount bars, and harnesses from my car. Not sure what I'm going to do with them yet. I may sell them or may put them in the new car. (I made the 'mistake' of taking a GT3 for a test drive)

Feel free to PM or e-mail with any questions.

orthojoe

Awesome. Thanks, my friend. This is exactly what I was looking for. I wasn't sure if the GT3 specific harnesses is what I needed, but now I know! Do you know if the submounts that suncoast sells fits both the passenger and driver side? BK's submounts are different part numbers depending on driver or passenger side. PM'd you also.

Congrats on the GT3. That car is next on my list, but I'm holding out for the 991. Keep the spyder if you can! If you can keep the spyder, you would have best of both worlds (my ultimate plan).

Dr.Bill

The sub mounts you need are the BK ones - different for passenger and driver seats. The less expensive GT3 mounts that Suncoast sells are for the older style GT3 seat. (the 996 Euro style seat)

A couple more helpful tidbits - you will need an E12 Torx Socket for the seat bolts (an external torx socket). The bolts should be tightened to 37 ft-pounds of torque.

redyps

orthojoe -

I remember reading a post from one of the Porsche instructors (dr collie ???) that said he would not get in a car that had 6 pt harnesses unless there is a full roll cage. He said that the regular belts allow the driver to slump over the console in a roll over that flattens the windshield.

I have also been told that the attach point for the shoulder belts should be 10-20 degrees below your shoulders. As such the cross members of the hoops were too high for me. I know others have let this go and so far have been okay. I checked with TC Design on a harness bar and they would need to fabricate one since BK and others don't make one standard.

I have also been told that it is best to have a HANS device when using 6 pt harnesses. Shoulder belts as you probably know are designed specifically for HANS so if you are going ahead with the 6 pts I would make sure to get the HANS shoulder belts.

I also learned that if you want to install a fire extinguisher (that some DE clubs require here in northern CA) with the BK sub-mounts you will need to either install the BK fire extinguisher mount or 'tweak' their bracket to fit other aluminum mounts (that some guys prefer).

The only good recent example of a roll-over in a Boxster that I know of was at turn 15 at Thunderhill, the most dangerous corner on the track. The driver early apexed and spun into the concrete wall and then rolled several times. The windshield was completely flattened. The driver had a 6-pt harness with HANS and walked away no issues. The passenger roll hoop however was bent forward (not severely) but probably enough to have done real damage to a passenger had there been one.

In the end I decided to stay the course with the OEM belts and drive in the 7-8/10 th's range and maybe look at a non-convertible car that is set up for the track (e.g. GT3).

Phil

orthojoe

Thanks for all the info guys, it's much appreciated! Phil, I'll see you at the track in March! btw, which clubs require FEs? (I have one in my Evo, and plan to get the BK FE mount for my spyder)

Joe

redyps

NorCal Shelby which is a fun group to run with.

TheKane

Here is my setup, which I'm very happy with:

I have both OEM and Harness in the car (for use separately of course).

6 Point Harness - Schroth Enduro Belt with GT3 eyelets for the lap belts.
http://www.schrothracing.com/store/C...profi/profi-II

Mounting Hardware for Belts (but I didn't use their eyelets, just bolts and spacers/step washers):
R-9003 à Clip-in Outboard lap belt Kit (does both seats)
R-9004 à Clip-in Inboard lap belt kit (does both seats)

Fire Extinguisher from LPI Racing:
Safecraft Fire Extinguisher - 2.50 Lb. - Polished Stainless Steel

Fire Extinguisher Mount & Quick Release:
http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/r2030.php
http://www.bkauto.com/porsche/r9520.php

Submarine Bars from BKAuto:
R-9032 à Driver Side Sub-strap Mount
R-9034 à Passenger Side Sub-strap Mount

orthojoe

Kane, why did you opt for the enduro profi II belt over the GT3 specific profi II belt? From what I gather, the GT3 specific belt will mount onto the factory belt mounts on the bucket seats, whereas the non-GT3 specific profi belts require and adapter to fit the latches. Am I correct on this?

orthojoe

So I sat in my spyder tonight and Phil makes a good point that the roll bar sits about 4" above my shoulders. They are supposed to be mounted directly behind my shoulders or slightly below. Now I'm conflicted. I really wanted to try out how a 6point feels in the car, but I don't want to go crazy with modifying the car to make it work. The distance from the roll bar to the shoulder is very short, so maybe that's why people have been able to use the stock roll bar to mount the shoulder belts, but I honestly have no clue about this stuff (why I started the thread)

TheKane

I like the quick-releases and other features of the belt tensioners of the Endurance belt, but I think you'll be happy with either. They mounted perfectly to the seats, I just specified the lap belt ends to have the GT3 eyelets. It might have been a bit extra to get them sewn into the ends, but under $100.

Regarding the height of the stock roll-bar: I'm 6' tall 195lbs and the straps work perfectly.

Plavan

The biggest misinformation on the web, or at the track. I hear this all the time, and it is not true. You can use the HANS with any belts 2" or 3". It does not have to be HANS specific. The belts just need to be mounted correctly. It's just a Marketing Ploy.


Don't take my word..... From HANS website

"What type of shoulder belts work best with a HANS Device?

•Any SFI approved shoulder harness system works fine with the HANS Device.
•2" or 3" shoulder belts in nylon or polyester work fine with the HANS Device.
•Be sure to mount and replace your belts in accordance with manufacturer guidelines. Only the HANS Device spreads the belts around your neck, preventing chafing and maximizing belt performance."

http://hansdevice.com/s.nl/sc.5/category.22/.f

orthojoe

Awesome, thanks for the input

Do you think I will have any issues being 5'8"?

Good to know!

TheKane

I think you'll be fine. I've tried to attached some pics of my completed installation, but it's not allowing me for some reason. When I'm sitting in the car with the harness on, the shoulder belts are well within the angle guidelines for installation and proper use.

I just noticed that you're in the Bay Area, and so am I. Do you want to see the install in person and try it out?

orthojoe

I do! Thanks for the offer. PM'd ya.