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I got my 4RS out on the track today and wanted to start a thread for people to share their setup changes/learnings.
I will go get mine to a shop this week, however from 1 day at Philip Island I can already feel some rear toe in should help with squirming under brakes. Also the fronts are in desperate need of additional camber. Tyre wear was hard on the outsides and insides barely touched.
So far as downforce I put it into high downforce for the event and didn't bother with low downforce at all. Interestingly the rear vis takes a big hit with the rear wing being in high downforce setting.
As aforementioned - I was fortunate enough to be able to arrange to get over to Munich last week to visit the SSR Performance facility and get a detailed look at the SSR CS package for GT4 RS.
I met with Manuel who is the gent in glasses in Misha’s videos and Sebastian chief mechanic, as well as getting some time on the phone with Timo, the CTO/Project Manager that is the technical mind behind these offerings. As you’ll have seen in all the videos, the facility is 1st rate, over 7 floors - I don't need to rehash that.
I had access to two SSR CS 4RS. An Arctic Grey car which has featured in their most recent social media and then of course THE Black development car… that thing has some presence… an absolute hard as nails weapon.
Chassis
My primary objective was to get a look at their chassis package, as it is based on KW V4 and I am very familiar with this, having run it on my 718 GT4 MR for 2years and also on my 981 GT4 before that.
I wanted to know if it was built to the same exacting standards as a Manthey specified damper from KW… did it have all the seals, weather proofing, fixtures and fittings, etc.
Simple answer is yes. It’s exactly as per the kit I had from Manthey for 718 GT4 albeit built to SSR spec for valving and rates.
Talking of rates… Upon receiving their development car, Timo didn’t initially know/note the OEM rates. He just drove the car on a few events and immediately decided it wasn’t right and essentially started on their own development path, from the ground up, utilising the KW 7-post rig to derive the values they wanted/needed for their requirements.
Based upon their testing and downforce requirements SSR have settled upon 90N/mm F and 120N/mm.
Now that seems soft in comparison to other offerings… and so I asked if that also works with their full DF aero package. Yes it does, and is all thats required. I asked, did they therefore design for the suspension to fully compress under max aero load and ride on modified bump stops like some full aero cars do… answer, no. Car does not ride on the bump stops and they still have adequate wheel/suspension travel for compression and droop at full aero load as verified on the 7-post rig where they are able to pull the car down to simulate the aero loading and see how the suspension reacts. Really impressed. So with that kind of rate they really can generate a lot of mechanical grip and still be nice and malleable. It can also still handle jumps and ramps, 2 up without bottoming out, as per Misha video at the N’ring
The general consensus is that 4RS might be too stiffly sprung overall at 100/140, and then MR have taken this up to 120/140, so this rate choice from SSR is interesting.
The dampers themselves are based upon KW V4 3-Way. I had these before, and now know that I could have theoretically carried these over from the previous car albeit re-valved and with revised spring rate - despite having been told otherwise by another source. Lesson: always better to check things out for yourself - That said - SSR have these built to their spec and it does include support for FAL which my previous set would not have been prepared for. They come with Adjustable top mounts for the front and Top Mounts for the rear which are offset. So a complete solution, true plug and play.
Geometry and additional parts
I wanted to know if any additional hardware was required for the SSR chassis package - and whilst there isn’t anything beyond the dampers for their official package.. if you are running an aggressive setup - they would also add in rear toe links. No additional arms, or drop link or anything else. Their arctic grey car in fact runs with OEM toe links and the Black development car runs with Porsche Motorsport Rear toe links.
For set up… SSR will provide a bespoke setup based upon the courses you must often want to run or will provide a bespoke setup but again their numbers are actually on what might be considered the mild side.
Typical setup would be in the range of -2.8F and -2.2R and this does not require Toe links, but really if depends on driver preference and they'll make a bespoke setup sheet for you.
The Black car has recently come back from setting Hockenhiem Record and they consider anything around -3.0F and -2.5R as extreme, and would not recommend going higher on this car, even with their kit.
The key for SSR is getting the setup including rake right along with correct tyre pressures. They say putting on too much camber on this car just slows it down and it’s better to focus on driving more smoothly. To achieve their setup your shop needs to be using the right tools in order to measure in the same way that they do. Other things to say is that the Full package, chassis and aero is fully TuV approved and they made the conscious decision to stay with OEM wheel/tyres sizing - as the intention was to fix the now relatively weaker areas of the car, not make it something else.
Aero
The Front splitter aero package has been discussed before - so I won't say much about that unless there is a specific question other than to say Manuel is ready to fulfil the group buy for the US customers.
EU customers can just speak with SSR directly.
The rear wing is very nicely made, adjustable with 5 settings, and the Gurney is SIGNIFICANT…. especially when compared to the Manthey Wing for 4RS. Manthey 4RS Wing w/ Gurney SSR CS Rear Wing w/Gurney1 SSR CS Rear Wing w/Gurney2 SSR CS Rear Wing w/Gurney3
It is no surprise that SSR generates as much df as they quote, where Manthey are limited by wanting to produce more df, but with no additional drag or negative effect to Cd.
Here is inside frunk view of the S-Duct. Really well made.
The black development car is really a cool thing...
I have more pictures and there is also information on the wheels and brake package - so let me know if anyone is interested in hearing more, but will pause this here. Any Q's let me know.
The TLDR is that I will be going with SSR for the chassis package along with some wheels - For me it delivers exactly what I wanted.. my 718 MR handling (and actually better) + 4RS drivetrain using as few parts as necessary.
Good idea to start this thread.
My guess is that alignment wise will be very similar to a GT4.
the 4RS does provide some additional adjustability but you will need aftermarket parts to get it just right for the track.
Camber plates and rear toe links will be the first upgrades
Aftermarket wheels are also a good idea but in order to change to 19" will need an aftermarket brake system (or you can stay with 20").
I know there have been mentions of 19s fitting with stock 408/410 front discs but the clearance is just too small for track use.
By going custom on wheels you can add the extra 0.5" on the front that the GT3s get but the GT4/4RS don't.
Brake pads and brake fluid is a must also.
Current GT3 has extra 1" wheel width front and rear (9.5" x 12") compared to 4RS.
True...was referring to the 991.x gen, which is the one the 98x platform is based on.
9.5" would be too much for the front but 9" is good for fitting 265 tires up front
what about swaybars? From the factory both sway bars are in the middle...
From my experience with the 981 GT4, the swaybars on the Cayman platform don't make a very big change to the handling balance (as they do on all the 911's I've owned).
But as a rule of thumb:
Soft front bar helps turn in and reduces understeer at corner entry
Firm rear bar helps rotation and reduces understeer at corner exit
From my experience with the 981 GT4, the swaybars on the Cayman platform don't make a very big change to the handling balance (as they do on all the 911's I've owned).
But as a rule of thumb:
Soft front bar helps turn in and reduces understeer at corner entry
Firm rear bar helps rotation and reduces understeer at corner exit
True...but it's a band aid solution, with some side effects. Better to deal with it with a good alignment and if possible a wider tire up front.
whoa whoa whoa... hang on there have been multiple threads already and 'people' (me) getting lambasted for daring to suggest that Pcars let along the GT4RS need any adjustments or mods at all. They are so well engineered and tested that noone should have to do anything at all to the cars whatsoever under all conditions! Of course Im joking but I do find it funny that this forum will go after some people for complaining about the limitations of these cars and then go right on posting about what they are going to do or mod on the car next. Rant over. Carry on...
The GT4 RS comes with some useful track set up information. For example, use the top mounts first to adjust camber before trying shims and if you shim ensure 22mm of thread overlap on the tie rod ends. There's also stuff on the aero thingies and a good tip on oil levels plus a track log book you can fill in so that the next guy you sell to can see that you lied about it never having been on the race track.
As the car runs 100N/mm springs front and rear, it's going to corner a lot flatter than the GT4 45/80 setup.
Out of the box, the car is beautifully setup for fast back road driving with reasonable compliance even on the harder damper setting. If you're using the car for both spirited road driving and track work, I'd be loath to change too much and this comes from someone who probably has one of the highest modded 981 GT4s around. I'll be interested to stay in touch with this thread.
whoa whoa whoa... hang on there have been multiple threads already and 'people' (me) getting lambasted for daring to suggest that Pcars let along the GT4RS need any adjustments or mods at all. They are so well engineered and tested that noone should have to do anything at all to the cars whatsoever under all conditions! Of course Im joking but I do find it funny that this forum will go after some people for complaining about the limitations of these cars and then go right on posting about what they are going to do or mod on the car next. Rant over. Carry on...
With a 60/80 Nm setup on my car moving the rear bar by just a hole on one side makes a noticeable change in the handling. It is nice to be able to make just one simple adjustment to be able to fine tune the car's handling to your personal liking.
Last edited by lovetoturn; Nov 19, 2022 at 11:45 AM.
With a 60/80 Nm setup on my car moving the rear bar by just a hole on one side makes a noticeable change in the handling. It is nice to be able to make just one simple adjustment to be able to fine tune the car's handling to your personal liking.
I’ve read conflicting info in many places that it is 100 Nm all around? Wonder if we can find an official doc to resolve.