Buying a GT2 RS: My Unfortunate Dealings with Porsche of the Main Line
10-04-2017, 08:16 PM
#91
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This is a complex topic due to state-by-state (in the US) regulations on auto sales / dealerships. I, too, like the Tesla model of direct sales (though I’ve never bought a Tesla) in principle.
There just isn’t a really good justification anymore for auto dealerships as required middleman for new car sales, IMO. Auto manufacturers can and should open their own stores and service centers as Tesla is doing and as Apple and others have done in other industries. Auto dealerships should still exist in a different role: non-brand-specific used car sales and service (think CarMax for mass market, and boutique dealerships for highline sales).
But it will take major regulartory reform is many states to make this possible.
Like Apple, Porsche/VW/Audi can do a better job promoting its brand by running its own “dealerships” and selling direct to its customers. Customers shouldn’t have to be loyal to a dealership, but rather to a brand. The store location one buys their car at should be a matter of convenience, nothing more, and customers shouldn’t have to build a relationship with the owner or manager of a particular store at an arbitrary location. Imagine if to buy a certain hot toy at Christmas you had to build a relationship with the owner of a particular Target store to get an allocation.
There just isn’t a really good justification anymore for auto dealerships as required middleman for new car sales, IMO. Auto manufacturers can and should open their own stores and service centers as Tesla is doing and as Apple and others have done in other industries. Auto dealerships should still exist in a different role: non-brand-specific used car sales and service (think CarMax for mass market, and boutique dealerships for highline sales).
But it will take major regulartory reform is many states to make this possible.
Like Apple, Porsche/VW/Audi can do a better job promoting its brand by running its own “dealerships” and selling direct to its customers. Customers shouldn’t have to be loyal to a dealership, but rather to a brand. The store location one buys their car at should be a matter of convenience, nothing more, and customers shouldn’t have to build a relationship with the owner or manager of a particular store at an arbitrary location. Imagine if to buy a certain hot toy at Christmas you had to build a relationship with the owner of a particular Target store to get an allocation.
10-04-2017, 08:58 PM
#92
Rennlist Member
I never bought a Tesla, and never will (I hope), so cannot hope. Didn't buy their stock either, unfortunately. All my "non car" friends/acquaintances that bought Teslas never said a bad thing about their buying experience. People registered in their site for the Model X and are waiting for their Model 3. All they have to do is wait, not pay more. Of course, no iimbalance between supply and demand, but that was not the case initially. We should have some interesting times ahead in case the Mission E is priced to compete with the Tesla sedans. If dealers try to get greedy, at least initially, since I understand that Porsche will make plenty of those given that ecars are the future, Musk will have some good laughs. My sense is that when it boils down to cars that are built to save our planet, PCNA will be a lot more rigid. Messing up with environment conscious drivers has far more implications than messing up with a few loyal car enthusiasts.
10-04-2017, 09:20 PM
#93
This is an easy one ****, but not pleasant.
Any good attorney will remedy your situation in court and very likely prevail unless you signed something that said you will pay over MSRP when you made your good faith agreement. Its unfortunate that they will loose their money, their time, their reputation, and attorney's fees.
I don't recall ever learning the exception to "always do the right thing" *unless there is a lot of money involved.
Say nothing else on line.
Any good attorney will remedy your situation in court and very likely prevail unless you signed something that said you will pay over MSRP when you made your good faith agreement. Its unfortunate that they will loose their money, their time, their reputation, and attorney's fees.
I don't recall ever learning the exception to "always do the right thing" *unless there is a lot of money involved.
Say nothing else on line.
Yep this will be quick and easy to handle with a goo attorney and make sure they cover his fees and your time as well.
10-04-2017, 09:20 PM
#94
10-04-2017, 10:18 PM
#95
there isn’t enough information from the OP to conclude the dealer breached a contract. The OP didn’t say there was even a written contract for the purchase of the GT2RS. And verbal contracts are no good if either side disputes what was said.
It it certainly sounds like bad business, but in absence of a written contract being breached, it’s unreasonable to assume this is an easy case.
Disclaimer: I’m not an attorney, but I am a real estate broker and produced training videos for an attorney / professor friend of mine in which I had to sit through tens of hours of classes about contract law.
10-04-2017, 11:14 PM
#96
Three Wheelin'
why do so many assume the OP would prevail in court? (Please don’t take this as a suggestion the dealer is right; sounds like he is a jerk....)
there isn’t enough information from the OP to conclude the dealer breached a contract. The OP didn’t say there was even a written contract for the purchase of the GT2RS. And verbal contracts are no good if either side disputes what was said.
It it certainly sounds like bad business, but in absence of a written contract being breached, it’s unreasonable to assume this is an easy case.
Disclaimer: I’m not an attorney, but I am a real estate broker and produced training videos for an attorney / professor friend of mine in which I had to sit through tens of hours of classes about contract law.
there isn’t enough information from the OP to conclude the dealer breached a contract. The OP didn’t say there was even a written contract for the purchase of the GT2RS. And verbal contracts are no good if either side disputes what was said.
It it certainly sounds like bad business, but in absence of a written contract being breached, it’s unreasonable to assume this is an easy case.
Disclaimer: I’m not an attorney, but I am a real estate broker and produced training videos for an attorney / professor friend of mine in which I had to sit through tens of hours of classes about contract law.
in fact while the dealership sounds like they have taken advantage of the reasonable assumptions from OP and from a moral standpoint they are scumbags, it is highly likely that they have covered themselves legally with the paperwork that was signed when Ferrari was dropped off and/or deposit paperwork that was completed. You can always hire an attorney just for sport and start throwing letters and threats of lawsuit jabs for principle but it can get expensive with little beneficial outcome. Almost all buyer's orders or deposit docs give the dealer about 5000 ways out of specifically honoring a deal without a specific VIN number listed on contract and most dealers don't even fill out much other than deposit receipts with a description of what you are putting deposit down for with no price breakdown.
10-04-2017, 11:43 PM
#97
Rennlist Member
This topic makes me nauseous, and sad for the OP (well as sad as one can feel for someone with serious liquidity who got screwed in a car purchase). As a means of entertaining my fellow RLers please consider the following: After the GT3's introduction in Geneva I approached the general manager (Tim Brookhart) and Porsche sales manager (Rory McGregor) at my local store, White Allen Porsche in Dayton, OH. I was placed on a waiting list, number 4 in line for their meager allocation of two cars. I mailed in a deposit of $15k to show I was a serious buyer and stated I would only purchase the car at MSRP and with the manual transmission. Several months went by BEFORE THEY CASHED THE CHECK when they told me that the three other customers had changed their minds and that the allocation was mine. They were very pleased to have a local buyer who was also a serious Porsche enthusiast. I enjoyed the entire process from configuration to deciding on ATL PEC delivery (probably late November). Despite my numerous inquiries Rory was very patient (and very helpful with the configuration) and was fully committed to seeing me get my dream car at MSRP.
This morning I called Rory to discuss the timing of my delivery when he told me about a phone call he recently received from an agent of an NBA player who offered him a substantial ADM to allow this athlete to take my allocation. Rory, being British and a follower of European football, was not impressed with the athlete's name or the proposition and politely declined the offer. When the agent asked if he truly understood what was being offered, Rory told him that he was fluent in English and wondered why the agent seemed confused.
I am very pleased to do business with these folks, and will encourage my colleagues and friends to consider doing likewise.
In anticipation of your questions, No, I am not a VIP and have not purchased vehicles from them before except for my wife's 2012 Audi Q5. Yes the second allocation has been sold and will be delivered next summer/fall. And Yes there MAY be further cars available for 2019 delivery. To be sold at MSRP.
At the onset I approached Tim and Rory openly and honestly with my only expectation of being treated with honesty, professionalism, and respect. My expectations have been exceeded.
This morning I called Rory to discuss the timing of my delivery when he told me about a phone call he recently received from an agent of an NBA player who offered him a substantial ADM to allow this athlete to take my allocation. Rory, being British and a follower of European football, was not impressed with the athlete's name or the proposition and politely declined the offer. When the agent asked if he truly understood what was being offered, Rory told him that he was fluent in English and wondered why the agent seemed confused.
I am very pleased to do business with these folks, and will encourage my colleagues and friends to consider doing likewise.
In anticipation of your questions, No, I am not a VIP and have not purchased vehicles from them before except for my wife's 2012 Audi Q5. Yes the second allocation has been sold and will be delivered next summer/fall. And Yes there MAY be further cars available for 2019 delivery. To be sold at MSRP.
At the onset I approached Tim and Rory openly and honestly with my only expectation of being treated with honesty, professionalism, and respect. My expectations have been exceeded.
10-04-2017, 11:56 PM
#98
This topic makes me nauseous, and sad for the OP (well as sad as one can feel for someone with serious liquidity who got screwed in a car purchase). As a means of entertaining my fellow RLers please consider the following: After the GT3's introduction in Geneva I approached the general manager (Tim Brookhart) and Porsche sales manager (Rory McGregor) at my local store, White Allen Porsche in Dayton, OH. I was placed on a waiting list, number 4 in line for their meager allocation of two cars. I mailed in a deposit of $15k to show I was a serious buyer and stated I would only purchase the car at MSRP and with the manual transmission. Several months went by BEFORE THEY CASHED THE CHECK when they told me that the three other customers had changed their minds and that the allocation was mine. They were very pleased to have a local buyer who was also a serious Porsche enthusiast. I enjoyed the entire process from configuration to deciding on ATL PEC delivery (probably late November). Despite my numerous inquiries Rory was very patient (and very helpful with the configuration) and was fully committed to seeing me get my dream car at MSRP.
This morning I called Rory to discuss the timing of my delivery when he told me about a phone call he recently received from an agent of an NBA player who offered him a substantial ADM to allow this athlete to take my allocation. Rory, being British and a follower of European football, was not impressed with the athlete's name or the proposition and politely declined the offer. When the agent asked if he truly understood what was being offered, Rory told him that he was fluent in English and wondered why the agent seemed confused.
I am very pleased to do business with these folks, and will encourage my colleagues and friends to consider doing likewise.
In anticipation of your questions, No, I am not a VIP and have not purchased vehicles from them before except for my wife's 2012 Audi Q5. Yes the second allocation has been sold and will be delivered next summer/fall. And Yes there MAY be further cars available for 2019 delivery. To be sold at MSRP.
At the onset I approached Tim and Rory openly and honestly with my only expectation of being treated with honesty, professionalism, and respect. My expectations have been exceeded.
This morning I called Rory to discuss the timing of my delivery when he told me about a phone call he recently received from an agent of an NBA player who offered him a substantial ADM to allow this athlete to take my allocation. Rory, being British and a follower of European football, was not impressed with the athlete's name or the proposition and politely declined the offer. When the agent asked if he truly understood what was being offered, Rory told him that he was fluent in English and wondered why the agent seemed confused.
I am very pleased to do business with these folks, and will encourage my colleagues and friends to consider doing likewise.
In anticipation of your questions, No, I am not a VIP and have not purchased vehicles from them before except for my wife's 2012 Audi Q5. Yes the second allocation has been sold and will be delivered next summer/fall. And Yes there MAY be further cars available for 2019 delivery. To be sold at MSRP.
At the onset I approached Tim and Rory openly and honestly with my only expectation of being treated with honesty, professionalism, and respect. My expectations have been exceeded.
10-05-2017, 01:00 AM
#99
Drifting
Could care less it's their rules if it bothered me I wouldn't buy it.
Dealers are punished lose incentives rebates advertising etc if the factory finds their car is exported via flipper etc.
Flip side is I have never paid ADM.
10-05-2017, 01:13 AM
#100
Drifting
Special - by that you mean a customer how dare someone.
10-05-2017, 02:03 AM
#101
Rennlist Member
I dont understand why more of the pissed off people don't hire a lawyer, if you can afford them car you can afford an attorney, so what if you don't win, its the principle. I think demanding a FROR from buyers is the way to go to stop the nonsense.
10-05-2017, 07:23 AM
#102
Burning Brakes
Probably because most people trust lawyers about as much as they trust dealers!
10-05-2017, 08:12 AM
#103
I signed an agreement with my dealer that I would pay a penalty if my GT4 were exported within the first year. MSRP purchase.
10-05-2017, 09:54 AM
#104
This has been beaten to death here as well as numerous other threads so I won't repeat what has been said
I will say this....While I agree this totally sucks for the OP my first question is did he get this in writing?....not to sound like an as*(&%$ but there is no way in hell given today's ADM environment I would pretrade a car for any GT car without something clearly written from the GM of a dealer on what the new car is going to cost.....
Telling the dealer you won't pay over sticker and them telling you they will charge you sticker means absolutely nothing.....zilch....anytime money changes hands for something, whether it be a $300,000 car or a few hundred for something little there needs to be some sort of written contract detailing the transaction or future transaction.....period
I will say this....While I agree this totally sucks for the OP my first question is did he get this in writing?....not to sound like an as*(&%$ but there is no way in hell given today's ADM environment I would pretrade a car for any GT car without something clearly written from the GM of a dealer on what the new car is going to cost.....
Telling the dealer you won't pay over sticker and them telling you they will charge you sticker means absolutely nothing.....zilch....anytime money changes hands for something, whether it be a $300,000 car or a few hundred for something little there needs to be some sort of written contract detailing the transaction or future transaction.....period
10-05-2017, 09:59 AM
#105
