Buying a GT2 RS: My Unfortunate Dealings with Porsche of the Main Line
10-05-2017, 10:26 AM
#106
Drifting
Jury - explain to them after they got called to trial via a lawyer you didn't get a 350k GT2RS while the Judge who makes 100k instructs the jury to punish the dealer who spent 10's of millions on construction employs the community ... can only imagine the joy in that scenario.
10-05-2017, 10:37 AM
#107
Agree
Jury - explain to them after they got called to trial via a lawyer you didn't get a 350k GT2RS while the Judge who makes 100k instructs the jury to punish the dealer who spent 10's of millions on construction employs the community ... can only imagine the joy in that scenario.
Jury - explain to them after they got called to trial via a lawyer you didn't get a 350k GT2RS while the Judge who makes 100k instructs the jury to punish the dealer who spent 10's of millions on construction employs the community ... can only imagine the joy in that scenario.
10-05-2017, 10:59 AM
#108
Rennlist Member
Agree
Jury - explain to them after they got called to trial via a lawyer you didn't get a 350k GT2RS while the Judge who makes 100k instructs the jury to punish the dealer who spent 10's of millions on construction employs the community ... can only imagine the joy in that scenario.
Jury - explain to them after they got called to trial via a lawyer you didn't get a 350k GT2RS while the Judge who makes 100k instructs the jury to punish the dealer who spent 10's of millions on construction employs the community ... can only imagine the joy in that scenario.
10-05-2017, 11:10 AM
#109
10-05-2017, 11:43 AM
#112
Race Director
Being “# this or that†or “subject to availability†makes no promises in regards to anything more than that.
If making a “dealâ€, get it in writing.
Talk is cheap, but in this case not cheap when wanting to buy a car.
Also, no reason to let a dealer hold anything more than a deposit down. Have a dealer hold $100K for over a year??? Ummmmm .....
I’d want that deal in writing.
If making a “dealâ€, get it in writing.
Talk is cheap, but in this case not cheap when wanting to buy a car.
Also, no reason to let a dealer hold anything more than a deposit down. Have a dealer hold $100K for over a year??? Ummmmm .....
I’d want that deal in writing.
Last edited by STG; 10-05-2017 at 11:58 AM.
10-05-2017, 12:05 PM
#113
Rennlist Member
I'm not a lawyer but I'm pretty sure 'subject to availability' means subject to the dealer getting allocation, which they are, so that has been satisfied.
As far as not noting that it would be at msrp, I'm also pretty sure that the burden to note that it would/might be above msrp would be the dealer's, and not for the customer to note that the agreement wouldn't vary from msrp. The legal assumption being that msrp is the standard unless otherwise noted.
That said, the 'get out' for all this is always the word 'suggested' in msrp, in most cases that's for the benefit of being able to sell cars below msrp, but in a few cases like GT Porsche cars it applies to markups. Legally I just don't know if there is a case there, but for virtue's sake I hope there is. If the OP has a good friend who is an attorney I would ask them their opinion before spending real money instigating legal action where only attorneys will benefit.
On an ethical front there is little doubt that the dealer is a douche, and the only way to combat that is for that to be noted in public and everyone who is looking for a Porsche to buy elsewhere assuming there are other less shady dealers near them. That would hit them the hardest, but they will never know to make the causal association that they lost all this revenue because they tried to pull this nonsense on a few customers. Plus, most people would not hesitate to buy from them if the same dealer gives them $500 off a Macan compared to another dealer, and then all principled loyalty to other Porsche enthusiasts fades and they just buy the car at the cheaper price, and that's understandable. So the only money they Main Line know they lost for sure as a result of this behavior is on the other cars the OP was going to buy from them and now isn't, which would unlikely amount in $250k in additional profit. So they make their short sighted calculations and don't think twice about screwing a valued customer. Like another member noted, the chickens come to roost on the next recession cycle, and then all the people they pissed off that still have the means won't support that business ... but that's of little to no comfort to the OP at the present time.
As far as not noting that it would be at msrp, I'm also pretty sure that the burden to note that it would/might be above msrp would be the dealer's, and not for the customer to note that the agreement wouldn't vary from msrp. The legal assumption being that msrp is the standard unless otherwise noted.
That said, the 'get out' for all this is always the word 'suggested' in msrp, in most cases that's for the benefit of being able to sell cars below msrp, but in a few cases like GT Porsche cars it applies to markups. Legally I just don't know if there is a case there, but for virtue's sake I hope there is. If the OP has a good friend who is an attorney I would ask them their opinion before spending real money instigating legal action where only attorneys will benefit.
On an ethical front there is little doubt that the dealer is a douche, and the only way to combat that is for that to be noted in public and everyone who is looking for a Porsche to buy elsewhere assuming there are other less shady dealers near them. That would hit them the hardest, but they will never know to make the causal association that they lost all this revenue because they tried to pull this nonsense on a few customers. Plus, most people would not hesitate to buy from them if the same dealer gives them $500 off a Macan compared to another dealer, and then all principled loyalty to other Porsche enthusiasts fades and they just buy the car at the cheaper price, and that's understandable. So the only money they Main Line know they lost for sure as a result of this behavior is on the other cars the OP was going to buy from them and now isn't, which would unlikely amount in $250k in additional profit. So they make their short sighted calculations and don't think twice about screwing a valued customer. Like another member noted, the chickens come to roost on the next recession cycle, and then all the people they pissed off that still have the means won't support that business ... but that's of little to no comfort to the OP at the present time.
10-05-2017, 12:29 PM
#114
Rennlist Member
it was a contract and he fulfilled his portion, they took the trade meaning they also understood and accepted the contract, the price is not entered but it is a generally accepted idea that the price of an automobile is MSRP or less unless otherwise noted. I be t if you had an imaginative lawyer, given the amt of money we are talking about I'm sure the word fraud can fit in there somehow because they defrauded you out of your other car. "winning" here means they comply with the contract or they don't do it to the next guy. Seriously you cant afford a few grand for an atty? If this was a real estate deal you'd do it without thinking, how bout your attorney seeks an injunction preventing them from selling the allocation to anyone else until your case is settled? right is right and its always worth a fight, disclaimer, I know-nothing about the law except from the tv show law and order and I mostly look at the hot attorneys
10-05-2017, 12:33 PM
#115
it was a contract and he fulfilled his portion, they took the trade meaning they also understood and accepted the contract, the price is not entered but it is a generally accepted idea that the price of an automobile is MSRP or less unless otherwise noted. I be t if you had an imaginative lawyer, given the amt of money we are talking about I'm sure the word fraud can fit in there somehow because they defrauded you out of your other car. "winning" here means they comply with the contract or they don't do it to the next guy. Seriously you cant afford a few grand for an atty? If this was a real estate deal you'd do it without thinking, how bout your attorney seeks an injunction preventing them from selling the allocation to anyone else until your case is settled? right is right and its always worth a fight, disclaimer, I know-nothing about the law except from the tv show law and order and I mostly look at the hot attorneys
Lol....good luck with a lawsuit.....as others have said what judge or jury is going to show sympathy?....I'm not a lawyer but "generally accepted idea" does not hold up in court real well....and he agreed to a trade in price most likely in writing....and by the time it makes it through the legal system they won't even make the car anymore....
10-05-2017, 12:43 PM
#116
Banned
I was all excited until the part about "subject to availability". That sir, is a license to do anything they want.
You now have to PROVE that they actually have "availability" , whatever that means. Selling the car to someone else means they no longer have availability, and thus their end is fulfilled.
You now have to PROVE that they actually have "availability" , whatever that means. Selling the car to someone else means they no longer have availability, and thus their end is fulfilled.
10-05-2017, 01:09 PM
#117
Race Director
The way this whole deal was structured makes me want to avoid this dealer moving forward. Clearly Sean acted in good faith and they did not.
10-05-2017, 01:35 PM
#118
To me, Porsche of the Main Line did nothing wrong. They did nothing to damage the OP. And the grief they are getting on this thread is undeserved.
On the other hand, IMO, the OP, right from the start, made a bunch of mental mistakes.
Mistake #1) Put a down payment on a car 2 1/2 years before getting it and expecting the world not to change during that time.
Mistake #2) Failing to understand that significant money is on the table.
Mistake # 3) Failing to understand the need for a written contract and not just a handshake and talk.
Mistake #4) Selling a Ferrari below market price for no apparent reason (and admitting it).
Mistake #5) Giving someone (in this case a dealer) $102,000 cash for over a year when that someone (the dealer) doesn't want it.
Mistake #6) Failing to recognize the problem stems from self inflicted errors. Instead, complains about the injustice of the dealer on a public forum.
All IMO.
On the other hand, IMO, the OP, right from the start, made a bunch of mental mistakes.
Mistake #1) Put a down payment on a car 2 1/2 years before getting it and expecting the world not to change during that time.
Mistake #2) Failing to understand that significant money is on the table.
Mistake # 3) Failing to understand the need for a written contract and not just a handshake and talk.
Mistake #4) Selling a Ferrari below market price for no apparent reason (and admitting it).
Mistake #5) Giving someone (in this case a dealer) $102,000 cash for over a year when that someone (the dealer) doesn't want it.
Mistake #6) Failing to recognize the problem stems from self inflicted errors. Instead, complains about the injustice of the dealer on a public forum.
All IMO.
10-05-2017, 01:47 PM
#119
Race Director
Being “# this or that†or “subject to availability†makes no promises in regards to anything more than that.
If making a “dealâ€, get it in writing.
Talk is cheap, but in this case not cheap when wanting to buy a car.
Also, no reason to let a dealer hold anything more than a deposit down. Have a dealer hold $100K for over a year??? Ummmmm .....
I’d want that deal in writing.
If making a “dealâ€, get it in writing.
Talk is cheap, but in this case not cheap when wanting to buy a car.
Also, no reason to let a dealer hold anything more than a deposit down. Have a dealer hold $100K for over a year??? Ummmmm .....
I’d want that deal in writing.
10-05-2017, 01:51 PM
#120
Race Director
Also - make sure MSRP is spelled out. Went thru this with another Dealer. MSRP - Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price- NOT - Market Sugested Retail Price. The fockers tried to slide that in and I had that corrected immediately