Setup numbers RS
06-20-2017, 09:41 PM
#661
Race Car
I'm happy with the way the car is performing, but I'm not good enough to really know any better!
06-20-2017, 10:46 PM
#662
Originally Posted by tstafford
Wright left the sway bars at factory position. They liked the ride height that low. I'm not good enough to question them. I'd surely defer to Peter (Trakcar) on this.
I'm happy with the way the car is performing, but I'm not good enough to really know any better!
I'm happy with the way the car is performing, but I'm not good enough to really know any better!
06-21-2017, 05:03 AM
#663
Race Car
As a reference Porsche suggests 275 mm +/- 2 mm in the rear and 115 mm +/- 2 mm in the front.
06-21-2017, 10:11 PM
#664
Race Car
I suspect they measured incorrectly. The ride height is as delivered from factory. It wasn't adjusted.
07-05-2017, 05:40 AM
#665
Race Car
Just to add to the confusion, maybe this should be taken with a a grain of salt:
From Manthey:
"Reading your lines it’s obvious that you are struggling with the same problem lots of GT3 RS customers deal in case the car is being used on track in standard specs with modified camber/toe values.
If the car isn’t modified- there is only one alignment setup which works- the factory one (camber/toe AND height).
Therefore, beside a modified spring/damper packages, we also developed an upgrade kit for the original suspension kit.
The package contains a packer/shim bundle incl. installation and wheel alignment.
Further on, if not done yet- the wheel arches in the back of the car have to be rolled- due to a technical information of Porsche."
From Manthey:
"Reading your lines it’s obvious that you are struggling with the same problem lots of GT3 RS customers deal in case the car is being used on track in standard specs with modified camber/toe values.
If the car isn’t modified- there is only one alignment setup which works- the factory one (camber/toe AND height).
Therefore, beside a modified spring/damper packages, we also developed an upgrade kit for the original suspension kit.
The package contains a packer/shim bundle incl. installation and wheel alignment.
Further on, if not done yet- the wheel arches in the back of the car have to be rolled- due to a technical information of Porsche."
07-05-2017, 10:18 AM
#666
Rennlist Member
Thanks Kobalt. Makes sense to me, I've always felt the factory set up is good and changes really only for driver preference or trying to chase better tire wear. Assuming they aren't just saying this to justify selling their kits.
will report then
07-06-2017, 10:45 AM
#669
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Here is my 19,000 mile update with my Labstone oil report.
All seems OK, a little more copper mentioned but I don't know what's acceptable and it was higher before and came down again. This was a LOT of track miles without oil change.
Last oil change 8-9 track days and 3xxx miles ago, most track days where at 80F plus.
Consumables, per day
-2 days at Sebring in April (2 single days testing the DSC box, see POST 573 so that’s at least 500 street miles driving to and from Sebring)
After those 2 days @ 17,000 miles:
Changed pads before this all around to a new set of Race Technologies RE-10
Bled the brakes (Castrol SRF) for the first time.
Front rotors had 6 days of Sebring on them and the rears had a total of 46 track days on them.
New tires.
Next track days for a total of 54-55 track days:
-1 ½ day at Sebring in May (2:16’s)
Added 100cc of Mobil1.
Mini Mancation: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-roebling.html
- 2 days at Road Atlanta in May (1.34’s, a half second slower then 997 3.8RS on Nitto) 4-5 sessions per day.
- ½ day at AMP (1.31’s) emptied one tank in two sessions.
This finished off the tires, so new tires were mounted.
Added 100cc Mobil1
- 2 days at VIR (2:00’s 6-7 seconds faster then 997 3.8RS on Nitto) drove a lot and hard, should be counted like 3-4 days.
After 1 day VIR, I replaced the front pads because they looked thin and VIR is pretty hard on brakes into T1, and I still had a day at VIR and 2 days at Roebling coming up the next days.
So AT BEST the Race Technologies will last 10 track days, even pre-bedded. I replaced them after 7 days.. and they had about 20-30% left. Rears were still fine.
- 2 days Roebling Road (1:19’s, tires were fried at VIR and so two seconds slower then 997 3.8RS on Nitto)
Swapped rear tires because left rear corded after 2 days VIR.
OIL:
Added twice 100cc after 2 track days so minimal oil use.
Oil warning, so annoying!
The last 2 track days each time the car asked for oil (about 5 times, all while idling.), I opened the rear deck lid for 10 seconds and it would go off.
I would drive a 20 minute session or drive to the hotel and it wouldn’t come on.
Its stayed off but the screen said it’s on the bottom indicator (Yellow) before the oil change.
Now that the oil has been changed I got an oil overfill warning, UGH.. It will go away in a few launches or track days but annoying.
Brakes:
The rear OEM rotors now have 54-55 days and look fine. Rear pads 8 days look fine.
The front OEM rotors now have 14-15 days and look pretty rough. Front pads 3 days look fine.
Next time I swap pads in about 6 track days I will swap rotors (rear 60-1 days, front 20-1 days) and try the Ferodo DS1.11 because they are cheaper than the RE-10’s and I read good things.
With proper bedding and new rotors, I will be able to test them properly. The cost from Apex is +/- $850 VS $1200 for a set of four, so will try and see how pads and rotors last.
Tires:
Front tires not corded but close and rear tires lightly corded on both sides. Will need 4 tires before next track day.
MPSC2 don’t work in over 80F weather for more than 4 laps. They just overheat. Need to start on 22PSI to keep it from going over 32PSI.
MPSC2 get slower after the 2nd day, even 3rd day they are losing time and only in their prime at 2 days or 8-10 cycles.
I got 4 days out of the last 2 sets of rears, the fronts could go another couple of days so if I flip fronts I would say 6 days out of the fronts but the last 2 will be slower by about a second or two per lap.
Maybe that could be solved with a soft front sway bar.
If I want to be sure I can finish day 4, I should flip the rears after 2 days. I've corded a few after just 3 days.
I want to try Trofeo’s but at Goodwood I spoke to AP and Walliser and they clearly seem to prefer the MPSC2 and told me the new N2 spec is longer, faster. Available in a couple of months when the GT2RS arrives.
When I asked about Trofeo’s, AP said “it’s a good qualifying tire”
Annoying and unsafe:
Drove the car to 26 Miles To EMPTY, got neutral out of T7 at Road ATL and could not find a gear. Had to turn off the car and restart. After restart only had uneven gears and limp mode. Limped to gas station and all was fine after fill up. Not safe Porsche!
I have sent an e-mail with the Youtube video;s to AP after discussing this with him at Goodwood.
Still annoys me is that the car wont "take Circuit PSI Setting" under 26 PSI, so that means; Go out at 22-24PSI, take a couple of laps and come in to reset PSI.
If you go out under 26PSI and don't come in to reset the system during a pit stop the PSI warnings keep popping up, filling the screen with red, its distracting to have to click it away.
Setup:
My setup as the car came in at 19,000 miles and the new setup:
Ride height unchanged at 118F and 278R
DSC box helps with lean and outer tire wear
Front bar middle
Rear bar full stiff
Camber Front -2
Camber Rear CHANGE -1.6 (It was supposed to be -2 so something was off), I have now set the rear camber -2.6 to try that, hopefully with a set of MPSC2 N2 spec soon.
Toe front 0
Toe rear CHANGE -0.00 to -1.0mm each side (Also off a lot!) redone the setup and now measures -2mm each side to add stability under threshold braking / compensate for more camber rear.
In other words the rear was pretty messed up somehow so I expect more understeer with this setup on corner exit.
I ran these numbers by AP and he seemed to think its all OK.
Aero:
No change
Front fender grills removed.
Does not affect dirt on the side of the car or anything coming through hitting the car. No black marks or anything due to removal. no problem in Monsoon rain driving home either.
Rear wing setting is as delivered but added Dundon Gurney flap. It didn't seem to affect top speed but hard to tell in varying temperatures. Highest GPS speed at Sebring is 150MPH, maybe at Daytona the difference would be more noticeable.
No other modifications.
Loving my Racelogic / VBox.
Next up:
I will check in and report about maybe Trofeo’s or MPSC2 N2 spec and Ferrodo pads.
Its going to take a while because I won’t do much tracking this s
All seems OK, a little more copper mentioned but I don't know what's acceptable and it was higher before and came down again. This was a LOT of track miles without oil change.
Last oil change 8-9 track days and 3xxx miles ago, most track days where at 80F plus.
Consumables, per day
-2 days at Sebring in April (2 single days testing the DSC box, see POST 573 so that’s at least 500 street miles driving to and from Sebring)
After those 2 days @ 17,000 miles:
Changed pads before this all around to a new set of Race Technologies RE-10
Bled the brakes (Castrol SRF) for the first time.
Front rotors had 6 days of Sebring on them and the rears had a total of 46 track days on them.
New tires.
Next track days for a total of 54-55 track days:
-1 ½ day at Sebring in May (2:16’s)
Added 100cc of Mobil1.
Mini Mancation: https://rennlist.com/forums/991-gt3-...-roebling.html
- 2 days at Road Atlanta in May (1.34’s, a half second slower then 997 3.8RS on Nitto) 4-5 sessions per day.
- ½ day at AMP (1.31’s) emptied one tank in two sessions.
This finished off the tires, so new tires were mounted.
Added 100cc Mobil1
- 2 days at VIR (2:00’s 6-7 seconds faster then 997 3.8RS on Nitto) drove a lot and hard, should be counted like 3-4 days.
After 1 day VIR, I replaced the front pads because they looked thin and VIR is pretty hard on brakes into T1, and I still had a day at VIR and 2 days at Roebling coming up the next days.
So AT BEST the Race Technologies will last 10 track days, even pre-bedded. I replaced them after 7 days.. and they had about 20-30% left. Rears were still fine.
- 2 days Roebling Road (1:19’s, tires were fried at VIR and so two seconds slower then 997 3.8RS on Nitto)
Swapped rear tires because left rear corded after 2 days VIR.
OIL:
Added twice 100cc after 2 track days so minimal oil use.
Oil warning, so annoying!
The last 2 track days each time the car asked for oil (about 5 times, all while idling.), I opened the rear deck lid for 10 seconds and it would go off.
I would drive a 20 minute session or drive to the hotel and it wouldn’t come on.
Its stayed off but the screen said it’s on the bottom indicator (Yellow) before the oil change.
Now that the oil has been changed I got an oil overfill warning, UGH.. It will go away in a few launches or track days but annoying.
Brakes:
The rear OEM rotors now have 54-55 days and look fine. Rear pads 8 days look fine.
The front OEM rotors now have 14-15 days and look pretty rough. Front pads 3 days look fine.
Next time I swap pads in about 6 track days I will swap rotors (rear 60-1 days, front 20-1 days) and try the Ferodo DS1.11 because they are cheaper than the RE-10’s and I read good things.
With proper bedding and new rotors, I will be able to test them properly. The cost from Apex is +/- $850 VS $1200 for a set of four, so will try and see how pads and rotors last.
Tires:
Front tires not corded but close and rear tires lightly corded on both sides. Will need 4 tires before next track day.
MPSC2 don’t work in over 80F weather for more than 4 laps. They just overheat. Need to start on 22PSI to keep it from going over 32PSI.
MPSC2 get slower after the 2nd day, even 3rd day they are losing time and only in their prime at 2 days or 8-10 cycles.
I got 4 days out of the last 2 sets of rears, the fronts could go another couple of days so if I flip fronts I would say 6 days out of the fronts but the last 2 will be slower by about a second or two per lap.
Maybe that could be solved with a soft front sway bar.
If I want to be sure I can finish day 4, I should flip the rears after 2 days. I've corded a few after just 3 days.
I want to try Trofeo’s but at Goodwood I spoke to AP and Walliser and they clearly seem to prefer the MPSC2 and told me the new N2 spec is longer, faster. Available in a couple of months when the GT2RS arrives.
When I asked about Trofeo’s, AP said “it’s a good qualifying tire”
Annoying and unsafe:
Drove the car to 26 Miles To EMPTY, got neutral out of T7 at Road ATL and could not find a gear. Had to turn off the car and restart. After restart only had uneven gears and limp mode. Limped to gas station and all was fine after fill up. Not safe Porsche!
Still annoys me is that the car wont "take Circuit PSI Setting" under 26 PSI, so that means; Go out at 22-24PSI, take a couple of laps and come in to reset PSI.
If you go out under 26PSI and don't come in to reset the system during a pit stop the PSI warnings keep popping up, filling the screen with red, its distracting to have to click it away.
Setup:
My setup as the car came in at 19,000 miles and the new setup:
Ride height unchanged at 118F and 278R
DSC box helps with lean and outer tire wear
Front bar middle
Rear bar full stiff
Camber Front -2
Camber Rear CHANGE -1.6 (It was supposed to be -2 so something was off), I have now set the rear camber -2.6 to try that, hopefully with a set of MPSC2 N2 spec soon.
Toe front 0
Toe rear CHANGE -0.00 to -1.0mm each side (Also off a lot!) redone the setup and now measures -2mm each side to add stability under threshold braking / compensate for more camber rear.
In other words the rear was pretty messed up somehow so I expect more understeer with this setup on corner exit.
I ran these numbers by AP and he seemed to think its all OK.
Aero:
No change
Front fender grills removed.
Does not affect dirt on the side of the car or anything coming through hitting the car. No black marks or anything due to removal. no problem in Monsoon rain driving home either.
Rear wing setting is as delivered but added Dundon Gurney flap. It didn't seem to affect top speed but hard to tell in varying temperatures. Highest GPS speed at Sebring is 150MPH, maybe at Daytona the difference would be more noticeable.
No other modifications.
Loving my Racelogic / VBox.
Next up:
I will check in and report about maybe Trofeo’s or MPSC2 N2 spec and Ferrodo pads.
Its going to take a while because I won’t do much tracking this s
Last edited by TRAKCAR; 10-10-2017 at 11:23 AM.
07-06-2017, 10:57 AM
#670
Rennlist Member
Great info again, incredible amount of track time. Curious to hear how you like the rear camber and toe settings.
Agree with the annoyances around TPMS and oil. Never had the gas issue, hopefully just an anomaly and doesn't recur.
Agree with the annoyances around TPMS and oil. Never had the gas issue, hopefully just an anomaly and doesn't recur.
07-06-2017, 11:17 PM
#671
Rennlist Member
07-06-2017, 11:36 PM
#672
Went with 260 front and 310 width, 9.5 wide and 11 inch wide forgeline rims correspondingly. Costs about half the price of Trofeo Rs/MPSC2 here in the far east, which was one of the strong factors for the change. The other ofcourse being faster laptimes. (I would be very disappointed if it was slower.)
https://www.y-yokohama.com/global/pr...logue_2016.pdf
https://www.y-yokohama.com/global/pr...logue_2016.pdf
07-07-2017, 10:05 AM
#675
Rennlist Member
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Wishing I Was At The Track
Posts: 13,608
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955 Posts
On separate note, finally got a proper alignment on my RS. Ride height was way off, as I knew: +20mm above spec in front and -10mm in rear. Haven't had it on track yet but a few on/off ramps confirm it's nite and day from where it came from factory.
Final specs:
Camber:
Front: -2.2
Rear: -2.4
Front toe: neutral
Rear toe: -2
Front ride height: 110mm
Rear: 270mm
Front sway: med
Rear sway: full stiff
Corner weights were pretty easy to balance.
Total weight with 1/2 tank fuel: 3360LB