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The "Dipper" at Mount Panorama Bathurst Australia has more compression than Laguna Seca. Most cars unload the inside wheel completely, ans are regularly 6" off the ground.
I was thinking about it for a long time, before i just "mentioned" that one aspect of Laguna Seca.....Totally forgot about Bathurst! yep, i would bet that would be close.... However, if you think about it, you are lifting a wheel because you dont have the compression that laguna has. At laguna, the way you exit, is that there is a huge positive g load, enough to compress, all 4 wheels (no inside wheel lift) AND a a turn at the same time (later gs which are now enhanced due to the positive g loading)
so, my quick analysis for the dipper is that if the car is lifting the wheel 6" off the ground, the CG is now higher, only 2 wheels have the majority of the weight, and we all know 4 wheels in compression and in a turn can generate more g forces.
But good one though and great picture!!!
JUST look at the pictures below. the drop is much more substantial with the corkscrew... its a cambered exit ....... all 4 wheels stay in contact, under compression , with a high g turn, making the wheel bearing loading very high... any slop in the hubs and the rotor will push the pads back slightly and cause the problems we have discussed here.
edit: just added a good pic of the "dipper " at Bathurst. you can see, sure its a drop, but doesnt have the abrupt rate of change of elevation that Laguna has.
Originally Posted by trophy
The "Dipper" at Mount Panorama Bathurst Australia has more compression than Laguna Seca. Most cars unload the inside wheel completely, ans are regularly 6" off the ground.
Last edited by mark kibort; 06-01-2017 at 01:16 PM.
Thanks, my friend. Since I've blocked him, I cannot see what he posted, but I am sure it's some sort of personally derogatory slime...
Irony right there!
stop posting about me, and ill stop posting about you! its that simple.
Originally Posted by Gofishracing
Mark- Obviously you've never met Dave or heard his shared expertise. I have and have very high regards. Stop the Kiborting. Makes you look bad.
actualy, while racing for 20 year and personally knowing and racing with many across the country.. lets just say the feedback from "those in the know" about dave is , lets say, less than favorable about his abilities.
How can you take him seriously as a driving coach if he lies about his experience???? he has NEVER driven ALMS but says , clear as day that he has. if he lies about that, how can you trust him about anything!
Im glad he is a friend of yours. its good to have friends. but this is a racing discussion board. i was commenting about causes of brake failure and one is known among racers and race car builders/maintainers..... I mentioned Laguna seca corkscrew being the worst on creating a problem if their is a weakness in the hub area (bearings). suddenly, all the "experts" chime in with 0 facts or evidence to the contrary.. besides. who cares if its not the greatest force at laguna . the point is, this is how your brakes can exhibit pad knock back. this is what might have happened to the OP....... Dave still thinks he baked the turn.. I think those with more experience here, tend to agree that the car might have had a good chance of brake failure.
dave also thinks (and "LOL" ) that you cant lose brakes at turn 2 at Laguna and survive.. well, i have done this and have given the video to those that want to see it as proof.
some of us are here to exchange ideas about racing and our cars, others are here to show off their fantasy Avitars.
I don't think it was pad kick back. Every turn he downshifts before braking and while he is in the turn unbalancing car. Death grip and not smooth inputs. Driver error to me. Coach not coaching perhaps. We need more video but that's not the point. I don't see the brake failure as you indicate. NNJR PCA will have him as a speaker- Do you qualify? Not that you got me started I put the video out to more of my respected Coaches. I'm curious if they see it as driver error or mechanical.
I don't think it was pad kick back. Every turn he downshifts before braking and while he is in the turn unbalancing car. Death grip and not smooth inputs. Driver error to me. Coach not coaching perhaps. We need more video but that's not the point. I don't see the brake failure as you indicate. NNJR PCA will have him as a speaker- Do you qualify? Not that you got me started I put the video out to more of my respected Coaches. I'm curious if they see it as driver error or mechanical.
Im not positive to the cause.. i reviewed the tape many times. and have had brake failure 3 times in my career, and know the feeling and know what to look for. however, it's not that clear in this case. I agree , drive was a little abrupt in many ways prior. the unclean downshifts, which i mentioned ,could induce rear end instability on an "unclean" clutch release. even with brake failure, as i have touted before, good clean rev matched downshifts, even one, can save the car. (as i have shown at Laguna with the "doubted" actual instance of doing so)
i also agree that the coach was just along for the ride and the driver was a little too irratic for my tastes..... i would have been using many more hand signals.
It will be interesting to see what the other "coaches" see.
Personally, i do think it was brake failure due to the lack of smoke, sound and movement of the car during steering inputs (generally lock up, and nothing moves and it makes a distinct sound) also, he hit the wall with such force and speed, instinctively, it would seem even lock up would have slowed the car down more. i don't think going into that braking zone was much over 80mph.
either way, it makes a HUGE case for everyone to practice downshift without brakes upon brake failure. There can and is enough forces there to save the majority of the brake failures that ive seen resulting in mashed up cars . (or cars that bust through gates out onto public hyways! ) Neutral or clutch in, is never the answer in a brake failure situation.
I don't think it was pad kick back. Every turn he downshifts before braking and while he is in the turn unbalancing car. Death grip and not smooth inputs. Driver error to me. Coach not coaching perhaps. We need more video but that's not the point. I don't see the brake failure as you indicate. NNJR PCA will have him as a speaker- Do you qualify? Not that you got me started I put the video out to more of my respected Coaches. I'm curious if they see it as driver error or mechanical.
Yes, for this reason, IMO it was driver induced.
Not sure what Our Little Friend posted again, I am sure it more of the same BS
Yes, and speaking of the wonderful NNJR folks, I will return in September to the Glen with NNJR for their Advanced Event as as the event coach, available to all participants, just like last year.
06-01-2017, 12:00 AM
