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I am not sure if this belongs here or not. I apologize if it belongs elsewhere.
I am planning to attend an estate auction on Sat, 5/27, where a 1999 911 Carrera is listed for sale. No other info other than a few pictures. Can look at the car 2 hours before it goes up for auction. Odometer reads 21707.
I have read the 996 pre-owned buyer's guide posted on Rennlist below, and other info I could gather, which brings up several concerns about potentially purchasing a car in this manner.
Given that it is an auction, no PPI will be possible as I don't have someone I can take along for an evaluation.
With such low mileage, how long has the car been sitting and what issues could be resident because of it?
Service history and documentation? We shall see.
Can it be test driven? Doesn't say and, due to #2 above, what issues could occur?
Etc., etc.
Bottom line, I am not sure how to go about the evaluation process in this situation. The car could be great (or not), but making a decision on look, touch, possibly drive, feels very risky.
Has anyone been down this path before? Any advice?
Have they published the VIN? I just bought a 2000 with 19k from a dealer, the dealer bought it from an auction. I've since been able to slueth the PO and have a service history, BUT, the car was from Georgia and they require a state inspection that logs the mileage every year. I was at least able to determine it was driven every year from the Carfax. In my case the car was just about immaculate and I hadn't seen one in person so nice from that vintage.
Unless this estate sale draws a bunch of Porsche enthusiasts and the car has a high reserve, you might be able to get it for a price where it doesn't matter.
I would not recommend it as an inexperienced 996er. Too many unknowns and you don't have the ability to evaluate it beforehand.
That said, know your budget both for the car and what you can stomach for repairs. Being in an estate auction and that mileage, I'd say there is a good chance it has sat for awhile. I wouldn't crank it (which they probably will at the auction ) until I could get all its fluids changed and examined. Look at the date code on the tires, if they are over 4 years old they need to be replaced. I'd plan on $5000 (not including tires and regular maintenance) over the next year or two as things will start to break as you put miles on it.
It could indeed be a good score at the right price, but it can also be a money pit. Figure out your price where it doesn't matter if it's the later (because you can afford to fix it or just walk away) and stick to that.
If I might add, the most important thing to do would be to get under the car and check where the engine meets the transmission and look for an oil leak. The popular belief is that low mileage cars that sit are most prone to IMS failure. That year should most likely have the dual row IMS and would be least prone to failure. If there is an oil leak you are going to have to make your decision on price. Iof the car is spotless, has the right color combo and options, and a service history it could go for well over $20k. An engine rebuilt could be $10k to $20k. A used engine $6-10k. If you can't determine the condition of the motor it isn't worth much more than $20k minus the cost of a motor. Check for an LN engineering sticker with a serial number under the hood or on the door jamb. If there is one it has the retrofit bearing and that could alleviate some of the IMS fear.
Again, assuming all you can do is look at the car in a non-running state, you can also look under the steering wheel. The 99's don't have a glove box and the owners manual and service book can be kept in a pouch on the drivers side knee panel. MAYBE the service book is there and filled out.
Check the coolant for oil and the oil for coolant. If the car sits where it has been parked check for any fluids on the ground.
If you want to use a little more forensics, check the accessory belt. If it has cracks, it might indicate the PO didn't service the car in a number of years.
I know I will probably get flamed for this one, but when I buy ANY used car, especially an enthusiast car, I factor in this one. Check the drivers side seat bolster. This is actually the FIRST thing I look at generically. My methodology is this; if it is in pristine shape the PO viewed the car as something special and was more likely than not to have pampered the car. A worn bolster tells me they either didn't give a crap, not knowledgeable about cars, or were too lazy to give that little bit of effort to avoid sliding across the bolster when they got in. If they didn't give a crap about that one easy action, how did they feel when it came time to do something a little more difficult, like servicing the car?
The date code on the tires can also indicate how long it has been since it was last in service. 911 tires, especially the rears, don't last long. The date code should give you the year and week of manufacture. If the car has old tires and good tread depth it would indicate there haven't been many miles since the tires were new, you can extrapolate from there.
Two other things, if you want, spend $25 on a coolant and brake fluid tester. You could easily test both in under a minute to further evaluguess the service history. Look at the shape of the coolant expansion tank on the left side of the engine (when standing behind). These are prone to cracking. I've seen some that look absolutely brank new and some that are yellowed and brittle looking on lower mileage cars.
under the front hood is the options sticker. That and the several decoders online will tell you the car's options.
The last thing I can think of would be to bring a mirror and flashlight. Use it to check everything from the IMS leak, dry rotted bushings, the radiator hoses in the front, and even the paint condition.
Lastly, be methodical and not emotional. There are many 996's out there. A 99 with 21,000 miles has a certain value, maybe $22-24k in pristine shape depending on options. You can always buy one with a service history for that number. If I were doing this I'd subtract for every unknown. Right off the bat, if zero service info is available and you can't even determine if the car runs, I'd figure $6-10k off that price. Needs tires due to wear? Subtract another $1000, and so on. Again, you can buy a different one with a history and relatively known condition if you are paying top dollar.
I am not sure if this belongs here or not. I apologize if it belongs elsewhere.
I am planning to attend an estate auction on Sat, 5/27, where a 1999 911 Carrera is listed for sale. No other info other than a few pictures. Can look at the car 2 hours before it goes up for auction. Odometer reads 21707.
I have read the 996 pre-owned buyer's guide posted on Rennlist below, and other info I could gather, which brings up several concerns about potentially purchasing a car in this manner.
Given that it is an auction, no PPI will be possible as I don't have someone I can take along for an evaluation.
With such low mileage, how long has the car been sitting and what issues could be resident because of it?
Service history and documentation? We shall see.
Can it be test driven? Doesn't say and, due to #2 above, what issues could occur?
Etc., etc.
Bottom line, I am not sure how to go about the evaluation process in this situation. The car could be great (or not), but making a decision on look, touch, possibly drive, feels very risky.
Has anyone been down this path before? Any advice?
Thanks
The car is 18 years old. Doesn't have too many miles but time will have started to take its toll.
With no chance to give the car a thorough used car check out which includes a test ride then a test drive my advice would be to give the car a miss.
But you probably won't.
So what you can do is research the car's wholesale/trade in value and attend the auction and inspect the car and if you see no signs of any accident damage, rodent damage -- check for rodent trash on top of the engine and if you can see these on top of the plastic panels that run along the bottom of the car -- see if you can get the car close to its wholesale/trade in price or some reasonable amount above this. But I wouldn't pay too much above wholesale/trade-in, maybe not even 5% above.
If you get the car -- and I doubt you will if you stick to not paying too much above wholesale/trade in -- I would not plan on driving the car home -- assuming the engine even starts/runs (frankly I would not "risk" testing this) but instead arrange to have it flat bedded to a qualified shop to have some preliminary work done.
I'm thinking a full round of fluids: engine oil/filter; coolant; brake/clutch fluid (if manual); Tip fluid/filter; even the windshield washer fluid. Tires are probably due to be replaced due to age.
If the car has been parked just a few months perhaps the fuel is ok. Otherwise have the tank emptied of the stale fuel -- assuming the car hasn't been parked so long the fuel has jellied up -- and filled with fresh fuel -- 5 gallons or so.
Since you probably won't know when (or even if) the plugs have been changed have the plugs changed. Replace the serpentine belt. Replace engine air filter and cabin air filter.
Replace the battery.
Be sure the body water drains are free of any trash build up and while you are there have the radiator ducts cleaned out.
Then just drive the car but keep a close eye on any signs of issues. This can range from a leaking water pump, RMS, soft radiator hoses, and so on and deal with these as they come up.
Really though if this car has sat any length of time even if you get the car for its wholesale/trade-in value the car will not be a bargain and could be a money pit as you bring the car up to date on all its servicing and then address the issues that the ravages of time and lack of regiular use have wrought.
Basically you are taking a huge risk because you are hoping to acquire the car dirt cheap. So your choices are acquire the car cheap - $10,000 or less or forget it. If you were willing to pay a "normal" price which might be between $15k - $20k, you could have the car inspected, take a long test drive, etc. Since you can't do that with the estate sale, paying anywhere near market rate makes no sense at all.
I might add if acquiring a Porsche 911 stretches your budget, RUN RUN RUN in the opposite direction. This is NOT the car for anyone who doesn't have $5,000 in cash ready to burn with no regrets whatsoever AFTER purchasing a vehicle that runs and drives as it was designed to do, consistent with age and mileage.
I will check everything I can. No VIN published on it with the auction notice. I am willing to part with the funds for repairs assuming I can get it for the right price (cheap) as many have said. I was assuming $4k-$5k to get it up to date, so good to see I am in the ballpark. The idea of engine replacement is concerning. Unless it rings all the bells, I will be reluctant to jump.
Be sure to check out that sticker to the left of the Mobil 1 sticker. I don't have that on mine. One of my comments was the coolant expansion tank. I'm not saying that the one on that car is bad, but it is yellowed. Here is a pick of mine for comparison, my car is a 2000 but it has the same miles:
The layer of dust on the interior says that it has sat for a good period of time. Looks like maybe cobweb remnants in the driver footwell? The grime on the steering wheel airbag cover suggests that it was not well cared for even when it was driven (note: we've had our 01 since new, barely do anything to clean it, and it doesn't look remotely that bad inside).
Given the state of the interior I think what is in the engine bay is simple dust rather than road grime. This also suggests minimal (if any) use in the last year or more. Sitting is bad for these cars mechanically.
I think this car has been sitting and rotting for the last few years. I would only take this on if I could get it for roller money (5-7k) as it is going to require lots of love, attention, and money over the next few years to get into proper shape again.
Long periods of idleness like this car seems to have seen also give rise to rodent concerns. It only takes one wiring harness to have been nibbled on to make life a living hell.
This is NOT a first timer's car in my opinion. You need to be prepared mentally and financially for this to be a project car.
You can always get lucky, but I wouldn't bet on it. At least not without understanding what "German project car" really means.
05-26-2017, 08:02 AM
Buy 996 at Auction?
) until I could get all its fluids changed and examined. Look at the date code on the tires, if they are over 4 years old they need to be replaced. I'd plan on $5000 (not including tires and regular maintenance) over the next year or two as things will start to break as you put miles on it.
