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Appearances can certainly be important. However, we are all listening to this story from the perspective of someone (a) who has some degree of camaraderie with many of us and (b) relates the story from the perspective of an individual who is being wronged by a corporation. Humans tend to side with the perceived victim, and we are programmed by the media to assume that in any situation involving a corporation vs. an individual, corporations are evil and crooked and individuals are innocent and guileless.
Autowerks says the seller is a long-time customer with several cars in their care; this seems likely given the seller's behavior (extending preferential treatment to Autowerks). Does it seem prudent that someone who runs a business in an industry where personal referrals are tremendously important would cheat a long-term customer so they could...wait for it...get their hands on a decade-old Cayman that might REALLY be gravely ill? No, that would be lunacy. Autowerks claims to even have done some legwork pitching the Cayman to other potential buyers; at some point, the tech who ALSO has a relationship with the seller expressed interest, and the seller elected to hook him up.
The biggest single expense in rebuilding an M96 is labor. When the labor is essentially free (assuming work after hours/weekends) and parts can be obtained at-cost, it makes perfect sense that one of the employees is interested in the Cayman as a project car...and it sounds like seller wanted to be a good guy and help the employee out (regrettably, Slakker was boned in this process).
The only people giving this any mindshare are Slakker (due to the boning described above) and those of us chewing the fat. I haven't seen anyone post up as an Autowerks customer; I know that if this all went down with MY indie shop, I wouldn't think for a minute that the shop would be trying to perpetrate fraud on the seller, and I would commiserate with them about all the forum nonsense it had generated the next time I was there.
If you squint hard enough at any situation, you can find something you think might be inappropriate. Granted, this situation doesn't require much squinting to see something that you could imagine a little hinky, but there's still a MASSIVE gap between "wow, that might seem shady to some folks" and the outrage some people are expressing against someone they seem convinced to be guilty of defrauding a long-time customer without a shred of evidence support that position.
It's been a rule for as long as I can remember that a) I never sell a car to a friend or family member, and b) I never lend money to a friend or family member unless I am able (albeit not necessarily willing) to walk away from the loan. Maybe Autowerks should consider a similar rule; however, Autowerks isn't compelled to give a single damn about what I think...
Originally Posted by kcattorney
...If Autowerkes' initial diagnosis was wrong, are they going to financially compensate the seller in some manner, who is a longtime and valued customer? If it's not the IMSB, won't it be more than a little awkward explaining that they screwed up the diagnosis yet profited at the customer's expense from that diagnosis? Wouldn't it be better to just not purchase cars from your clients right after you give them a catastrophic diagnosis? Wouldn't it be better to just have a policy that you buy other shops' catastrophic diagnosis vehicles if you want to get into the repair & resell business? Wouldn't that solve the ethics concerns raised herein? Wouldn't that have avoided all the conjecture caused by the obvious eagerness by the diagnosing tech to undercut Slakker and convince the customer to sell to him instead? There is a clear conflict of interest evident here even if there is no wrongdoing.
If the seller was being wronged, yes, the answer to many of these [rhetorical ] questions would be yes. However, the seller has evidenced his willingness to wash his hands of the Cayman. Maybe he wanted that spot in the garage for a new golf cart; maybe he was tired of the Cayman and also needed a quick $10K for that whole-back laser hair removal he's always wanted and finally decided to buy.
Maybe Autowerks has NEVER purchased a customer car before, but they did so as a favor so the older gentleman (as Slakker described) wouldn't have to go through the hassle of trying to register the car as non-operational (since it's not smoggable in its current state and thus cannot be sold by its owner to an individual in the state of California).
Heck, maybe Autowerks went through the trouble to get licensed to buy/sell cars in California JUST BECAUSE metal in the filter of an M96-powered car puts some of their clientele in the situation of owning a car they cannot legally sell (the onus of smogging a car is on the seller in a sales transaction); the car is not a salvage title because nothing yet has been proved wrong with it, yet the seller knows that simply starting a car in such a condition to get it smogged has some small chance of rendering even the engine core unusable. Sure, this is a stretch, but not really that much more of a stretch than much of the conjecture that's being bounced around here...
On the plus side: I promise I'm done beating this dead horse, and I will return to the GW thread where they usually keep me locked up.
Interesting thread as I've been looking at pcars just like this one. Research seems to indicate motors are $10k parts only so turning any sort of profit is quite difficult even for the shop. So the fact they tend to purchase them is a bit suspicious and does lead to conspiracy theories of misdiagnosis or blatant fraud.
As kcattorney and others have stated they could easily have avoid any concerns by simply not allowing anyone affiliated with them from purchasing the car.
Does it seem prudent that someone who runs a business in an industry where personal referrals are tremendously important would cheat a long-term customer so they could...wait for it...get their hands on a decade-old Cayman that might REALLY be gravely ill?
Doesn't seem prudent to me, but it happens.
Slightly different place on the depreciation/appreciation scale, but I have a friend that got screwed by Intersport here in Tysons VA. They THE Porsche independent in this area and everybody knows them. Other than their ridiculous prices I have never heard a complaint about them.
My friend bought her 97 993 Targa in 98 as a CPO. Every oil change, modification, repair, etc.. was done by Intersport until 2015 when she sold it to them.
She was in the middle of a divorce, didn't have a garage for it anymore, and couldn't bring herself to keep it on the street after so many years of babying it.
I regret not making her an offer as the best I could do was $25k and it was worth $35-40k at the time. I couldn't insult her with such a low ball offer.
They "helped" her out by giving her $20k for it. It was in their for sale list the next day for $40k and 3 days later it was gone
It was of course up to her to do her due diligence to have an inkling of it's value, but much like the seller in this story she just didn't want to deal with it and thought she could trust them based on her history with them.
I'm also not opposed to them having picked it up and making some profit, but probably $15k on a car that they just needed to post on their website (it needed nothing and was in perfect condition) is a bit obscene to me.
So that's clearly a case of them putting short term profits ahead of their reputation. I expect at least part of it is the hubris from being "the" Indy in the area and thinking their current work load won't go away (which it may never slack significantly). The fact that I'll never go there and will actively try to convince others to not go there really doesn't mean squat to them.
I completely agree with every word scnellyboomabingbang has written in this thread.
I mean, I have a great relationship with my mechanic who makes house calls and then sits in the back deck drinking beers and if one of my cars went **** up and I was selling it and he said hey, I'll give you that for it I'd sell it to him over some rando internet freakazoid any day of the week. And if he told me my car was broke, my car is broke.
The shop or employee shouldn't have bought it after I engaged them for the PPI and they shouldn't have purchased a car they diagnosed as catastrophic. All the other stuff just makes for an entertaining story.
I may post the PPI piece on google if I get around to it. If it's an isolated complaint, it will have almost no impact. If it's a trend then that's a whole other matter.
The one interesting tidbit I haven't heard anyone talk about was the guy that did a Rennfax stating that the oil hadn't been changed in 2 years. That could have complicated things.
Regardless, I've got parts arriving everyday and starting to pile up. Track car comes home next week and I get to dive in and finish phase 2.
Regardless, I've got parts arriving everyday and starting to pile up. Track car comes home next week and I get to dive in and finish phase 2.
I think it's a blessing in disguise personally as you don't need any distractions so that you can concentrate on your main ride. You do have a lot ahead of you in prepping your track car.
I think it's a blessing in disguise personally as you don't need any distractions so that you can concentrate on your main ride. You do have a lot ahead of you in prepping your track car.
She was in the middle of a divorce, didn't have a garage for it anymore, and couldn't bring herself to keep it on the street after so many years of babying it.
>>Intersport here in Tysons VA. They THE Porsche independent in this area and everybody knows them
..as arm twisters and 'ambulance' chasers. [Based on direct experience, too long to recount in detail: let's just say their efforts to drum up business at a Summit Point DE showed either diagnostic incompetence or mendacity. No third option exists]
They "helped" her out by giving her $20k for it. It was in their for sale list the next day for $40k and 3 days later it was gone
It was of course up to her to do her due diligence to have an inkling of it's value, but much like the seller in this story she just didn't want to deal with it and thought she could trust them based on her history with them.
I'm also not opposed to them having picked it up and making some profit, but probably $15k on a car that they just needed to post on their website (it needed nothing and was in perfect condition) is a bit obscene to me.
So that's clearly a case of them putting short term profits ahead of their reputation. I expect at least part of it is the hubris from being "the" Indy in the area and thinking their current work load won't go away (which it may never slack significantly). The fact that I'll never go there and will actively try to convince others to not go there really doesn't mean squat to them.
Originally Posted by redlineblue
>>Intersport here in Tysons VA. They THE Porsche independent in this area and everybody knows them
..as arm twisters and 'ambulance' chasers. [Based on direct experience, too long to recount in detail: let's just say their efforts to drum up business at a Summit Point DE showed either diagnostic incompetence or mendacity. No third option exists]
I think both of you guys are wrong. I just went to their website and it says right there that they are great guys that you can trust. So, sorry, but what you say cannot be true. Just ask them. Come on, you can't base your opinion on actions when words say differently.
08-29-2016, 04:48 PM
] questions would be yes. However, the seller has evidenced his willingness to wash his hands of the Cayman. Maybe he wanted that spot in the garage for a new golf cart; maybe he was tired of the Cayman and also needed a quick $10K for that whole-back laser hair removal he's always wanted and finally decided to buy. 
!!!
