Cops
Rest In Peace Jaak
Cable Guy
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Cable Guy
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Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 15,654
Likes: 4
From: Don Mills, Canuckistan
Not sure where you were working, but cops at intersections and construction sites was happening in 1976, when I first joined TPS. Miller didn't create the problem. It existed in some shape or form, long before Miller. The Board and City Council felt there was a need - it certainly wasn't "to keep them happy due to their union contract"! Cops don't belong to any union (not legal)...they have an association.
Not saying I endorse any of this, but your facts are incorrect.
Not saying I endorse any of this, but your facts are incorrect.
I have worked from Ottawa, London, Georgian Bay etc., and the only place that pushes it is Toronto. Never needed it in York, Dufferin, Peel regions .... unless traffic was affected and that usually involved downed cables. They left once we had the support stranf back up across the roadway. If we needed to continue down the road, they were not needed as we had adequate workplace protection. Even in Toronto ...
Union/Association ... not too much of a difference other than it was restricted to the "Corporation" ... former Association member in Rogers.
Pocket Sand
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 7,648
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From: Ask Rusty Shackleford.
We're dealing with human beings here...so are there cops out there abusing the system to get more court time? Sure. But the vast majority of cops I knew, hated going to court (bylaw, traffic, criminal). Part of the job they signed up for, definitely, but they hated it. You don't get paid enough to go to court off duty or on a day off. Most valued their off duty time. Court time just takes you away from your family.
I guess my follow-up question would be why is traffic court not scheduled during duty time ("work time" for all intents and purposes). it could be structured in such a way that x% of an officer's scheduled work time can be allocated to administrative work (read: court, paperwork, etc...). Then we'd prolly have to hire more guys and we're back to square 1 with rising costs.
When you reference duty time vs. offduty, is that the same as at work/off work or is there a distinction made between patrol time and other time that factors in?
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 350
Likes: 1
From: Ontario's SouthCoast
I agree with this statement. If they're off duty, it's the same as being off the clock at a normal job and they shouldn't be made to go in, it's optional, kinda like overtime.
I guess my follow-up question would be why is traffic court not scheduled during duty time ("work time" for all intents and purposes). it could be structured in such a way that x% of an officer's scheduled work time can be allocated to administrative work (read: court, paperwork, etc...). Then we'd prolly have to hire more guys and we're back to square 1 with rising costs.
When you reference duty time vs. offduty, is that the same as at work/off work or is there a distinction made between patrol time and other time that factors in?
I guess my follow-up question would be why is traffic court not scheduled during duty time ("work time" for all intents and purposes). it could be structured in such a way that x% of an officer's scheduled work time can be allocated to administrative work (read: court, paperwork, etc...). Then we'd prolly have to hire more guys and we're back to square 1 with rising costs.
When you reference duty time vs. offduty, is that the same as at work/off work or is there a distinction made between patrol time and other time that factors in?
. As for court time. Holidays are picked up to 8 months in advance but the violator has the the right to change the date to suit them - that is where most go off the rails. It's the same in criminal court. As well courts have to juggle how many guys off one shift are off the road in court.
As has been stated before - most jobs pay overtime. Why would this be any different. Eg. Call a plumber on christmas day or a Sunday for that matter
Last edited by MY86Carrera; Jan 29, 2013 at 06:51 PM.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 18
From: between TO and Barrie
Incorrect. I worked in Toronto for Rogers, in the Field, till 1996 and I did NOT need a Cop to block traffic when I popped a M/H in or close to an intersection, Today, one needs a Cop before you open the M/H. I also managed Fibre and major outages in the GTA till 2008 and the ONLY time a Cop was on site if it was a traffic accident that took a pole line down or something similar. I also did not need one when working replacing the support structure such as poles or conduits till after Miller got in. He pushed for it ...
I have worked from Ottawa, London, Georgian Bay etc., and the only place that pushes it is Toronto. Never needed it in York, Dufferin, Peel regions .... unless traffic was affected and that usually involved downed cables. They left once we had the support stranf back up across the roadway. If we needed to continue down the road, they were not needed as we had adequate workplace protection. Even in Toronto ...
Union/Association ... not too much of a difference other than it was restricted to the "Corporation" ... former Association member in Rogers.
I have worked from Ottawa, London, Georgian Bay etc., and the only place that pushes it is Toronto. Never needed it in York, Dufferin, Peel regions .... unless traffic was affected and that usually involved downed cables. They left once we had the support stranf back up across the roadway. If we needed to continue down the road, they were not needed as we had adequate workplace protection. Even in Toronto ...
Union/Association ... not too much of a difference other than it was restricted to the "Corporation" ... former Association member in Rogers.
As for union vs. association...HUGE difference! My father worked for Ford and was part of the UAW. You don't mess with Unions! The Police Association has very little in the way of teeth. Not complaining, I agree that Police shouldn't be unionized. But there is a huge difference.
I also agree that Municipal Insurance concerns probably mandated Police presence.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 18
From: between TO and Barrie
I agree with this statement. If they're off duty, it's the same as being off the clock at a normal job and they shouldn't be made to go in, it's optional, kinda like overtime.
I guess my follow-up question would be why is traffic court not scheduled during duty time ("work time" for all intents and purposes). it could be structured in such a way that x% of an officer's scheduled work time can be allocated to administrative work (read: court, paperwork, etc...). Then we'd prolly have to hire more guys and we're back to square 1 with rising costs.
When you reference duty time vs. offduty, is that the same as at work/off work or is there a distinction made between patrol time and other time that factors in?
I guess my follow-up question would be why is traffic court not scheduled during duty time ("work time" for all intents and purposes). it could be structured in such a way that x% of an officer's scheduled work time can be allocated to administrative work (read: court, paperwork, etc...). Then we'd prolly have to hire more guys and we're back to square 1 with rising costs.
When you reference duty time vs. offduty, is that the same as at work/off work or is there a distinction made between patrol time and other time that factors in?
Management would dearly love to schedule ALL court appearances during on duty hours (would save them a fortune). This does cause other problems though (like, who's policing the division while everyone's in court?). Logistically it proved impossible. Officers were assigned regular traffic court dates every working cycle - a day court and a night court. When I say "assigned" I mean that the officer may have to attend traffic court on those days, if notified to attend. The officer could not assign those dates to offenders.
Off duty court time is paid for at a minimum of 3 hours (cash or time).
Day off court time is paid for at a minimum of 4 1/2 hours (cash or time).
Now, this may be incorrect now, as its been quite some time since I had to attend court, on or off duty.
