Cops
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 350
Likes: 1
From: Ontario's SouthCoast
+1 to pretty much all of this. It is indeed a tiresome subject.
Though I think you're mistaken about cops at construction sites not being paid by taxpayers - yes, the construction company pays for them, but the vast majority of these projects are public works, where the various levels of government are paying the construction companies with tax dollars. So in the end, we are indeed paying for the unnecessary police presence.
Though I think you're mistaken about cops at construction sites not being paid by taxpayers - yes, the construction company pays for them, but the vast majority of these projects are public works, where the various levels of government are paying the construction companies with tax dollars. So in the end, we are indeed paying for the unnecessary police presence.
So officers are paid by taxes collected by government, officers pay property tax, large income tax and tax on items they buy... So they work for free or close to free using your logic... ??
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 18
From: between TO and Barrie
It also leads to the increased distribution of tickets that officers know will get tossed out in court, but that doesn't matter because it's in the officer's financial interest to appear in court. Last time I was at traffic court, one of the officers was chatting with his colleauge about how he setup his schedule so that he could take paternity leave and be in traffic court. Take to its logical extreme represents a tax on motorists who need to take a day off work to fight said ticket (half a day to schedule a court date, half a day on the actual date, and if their busy you'll have to come back again). Remove this incentive structure and you can decrease the clogging of the system with specious ticketing, as well as save financially.
Race Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,401
Likes: 236
From: 6th gear!
We're dealing with human beings here...so are there cops out there abusing the system to get more court time? Sure. But the vast majority of cops I knew, hated going to court (bylaw, traffic, criminal). Part of the job they signed up for, definitely, but they hated it. You don't get paid enough to go to court off duty or on a day off. Most valued their off duty time. Court time just takes you away from your family.
That said, traffic enforcement serves as a valuable tool. You'd be amazed at just how many wants and warrants are uncovered by traffic stops. Turns out if you drive like a dick there's often plenty to uncover...
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 350
Likes: 1
From: Ontario's SouthCoast
Believe it or not most police want to make a difference...do some good. They hate court duty and they hate administration and duties that many here would criticize as "not real police work."
That said, traffic enforcement serves as a valuable tool. You'd be amazed at just how many wants and warrants are uncovered by traffic stops. Turns out if you drive like a dick there's often plenty to uncover...
That said, traffic enforcement serves as a valuable tool. You'd be amazed at just how many wants and warrants are uncovered by traffic stops. Turns out if you drive like a dick there's often plenty to uncover...
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
Likes: 50
From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
That is kind of splitting hairs - saying construction company gets money from government so tax payers pay officers.
So officers are paid by taxes collected by government, officers pay property tax, large income tax and tax on items they buy... So they work for free or close to free using your logic... ??
So officers are paid by taxes collected by government, officers pay property tax, large income tax and tax on items they buy... So they work for free or close to free using your logic... ??
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
Likes: 50
From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
My dad was a police officer and many of his friends and our family friends are or were as well. Believe it or not most police want to make a difference...do some good. They hate court duty and they hate administration and duties that many here would criticize as "not real police work.".
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,394
Likes: 482
From: Ontario
Back to the OP which is the subject is the growing cost of Policing in an environment of lowered crime stats and a provincial deficit. Once upon a time Police were first responders to Alarm Company dispatchs and when only banks, jewellers or VIPs had alarms it wasn't a drain on resources, but nowadays when one out of five homes and seven of ten business' have alarms it becomes a problem. Historically more than nine of ten alarms are false. It got to be that alarm response used as much police resources as traffic so Police Services started requiring verification of alarms before dispatching officers. Currently that is the rule as are, in some jurisdictions, permits with a fee for alarms dispatched by alarmco's. It really hasn't worked out well, especially for people who have invested in Alarm Systems only to find that when needed Police arrived hours later after the deed was done. In those cases the business(wo)man or homeowner is left scratching their head wondering why, as a community, they pay all that money for a non existent service.
FWIW crime maps.
http://www.peelpolicemaps.ca/
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/stati...crime_maps.php
http://www.hrps.on.ca/CrimeFiles/Cri...s/default.aspx
FWIW crime maps.
http://www.peelpolicemaps.ca/
http://www.torontopolice.on.ca/stati...crime_maps.php
http://www.hrps.on.ca/CrimeFiles/Cri...s/default.aspx
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
Likes: 50
From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
With our alarm (alarmforce) we get a call when the alarm goes off, admin us if we want police dispatched. We get one free false alarm per year, after that the police charge is $50 per. Fair enough, but then I expect them to be there within minutes if they are indeed dispatched.
Look, there are lots of aspects to most jobs that seem frustratingly futile and ineffective but that's life. Suck it up, buttercup. So you joined the force because you had all these dreams of busting drug rings and high speed car chases, then you find out most of it is rather pedestrian work. Welcome to life.
Look, there are lots of aspects to most jobs that seem frustratingly futile and ineffective but that's life. Suck it up, buttercup. So you joined the force because you had all these dreams of busting drug rings and high speed car chases, then you find out most of it is rather pedestrian work. Welcome to life.
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Captain Obvious
Super User
Super User
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 22,846
Likes: 348
From: Cambridge, Ontario, Canada
No, you're over-complicating it. Let's say bridge work on the qew will cost $1,000,000 and will take a week to complete. The government will pay the construction company $1 million from the tax coffers. Now add a cop there, 24 hours a day x 7 days at $65/hr, that adds $11k to the cost, which is paid by us. Simple as that.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,394
Likes: 482
From: Ontario
The pay duty is paid by the construction company and not you. It comes from the money that you as a tax payer pays but its not your money. Same as taking your car do a dealer for service. You pay the bill for the repairs to the dealer and the dealer pays the mechanic. This doesn't mean its your money directly paying for it. The cop or the mechanic does not work for you, they work for the shop/construction company. Tax payers love playing the "I pay your wages" game. You pay for a service and not the paycheque.
Race Car
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 4,633
Likes: 395
From: Terrorizing your neighbourhood!
The pay duty is paid by the construction company and not you. It comes from the money that you as a tax payer pays but its not your money. Same as taking your car do a dealer for service. You pay the bill for the repairs to the dealer and the dealer pays the mechanic. This doesn't mean its your money directly paying for it. The cop or the mechanic does not work for you, they work for the shop/construction company. Tax payers love playing the "I pay your wages" game. You pay for a service and not the paycheque.
I do some work for a traffic management company and I'm pretty sure they charge almost as much as an officer.
Racer
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 350
Likes: 1
From: Ontario's SouthCoast
No, you're over-complicating it. Let's say bridge work on the qew will cost $1,000,000 and will take a week to complete. The government will pay the construction company $1 million from the tax coffers. Now add a cop there, 24 hours a day x 7 days at $65/hr, that adds $11k to the cost, which is paid by us. Simple as that.
Remember that cops pay taxes too.
Race Car
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,401
Likes: 236
From: 6th gear!
And what do you consider a "BS revenue-generating ticket?". A small increment over the limit? A rolling right? Hand held device usage? Like it or not there is one sure fire way not to get any ticket...follow the law. If you don't have the discipline to do that then be prepared to pay a fine. It's not a big deal.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 18
From: between TO and Barrie
Having been in the Utility field for over 38 years, the use of cops at intersections and construction sites only happened during the Miller term. There is no reason for them to be there other than them being able to make overtime to keep them happy due to their union contract.
Not saying I endorse any of this, but your facts are incorrect.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 26,394
Likes: 482
From: Ontario
I think the cops on road construction site, etc thing may be connected to the municipalities insurance liability. I know thats the case for the Fire Department where the city's rating depends on distance between stations and average response time.