Cops
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Ontario
Cops
Only because it's Friday. In the Rob Ford thread some questioned the cost of policing and that subject that can't be left to wither on the vine.
AFAIK labour cost of policing has always been the largest part of the budget and over time the demands of the job has required more skills and hence more qualified personnel and that costs money. Changes in technology and society also have changed policing. Those include cyber crimes such as kiddie ****, luring, fraud. The Bill of Rights and greater attention to domestic violence changed response methods and the command structure. Technology such as the rapid growth of monitored alarm systems created two situations, one was improved security and second a higher demand on police response ( approx 95% of alarms are false). That was resolved simply with police not responding to unverified alarms which incidentally led to the creation of private guard resonse whose only function was to verify the alarm. To little to late.
Policing is expensive and IMHO the service needs to peel off some of the duties. Traffic for instance. It is a fact that behavior is modified for several weeks after receiving a ticket and the goal is for safety of the community. Why not have cameras in speed sensitive areas or at intersections or along streets to enforce rush hour parking violations? Why not have private security people perform point duty at construction sites? Paid duty is really too expensive for that job.
AFAIK labour cost of policing has always been the largest part of the budget and over time the demands of the job has required more skills and hence more qualified personnel and that costs money. Changes in technology and society also have changed policing. Those include cyber crimes such as kiddie ****, luring, fraud. The Bill of Rights and greater attention to domestic violence changed response methods and the command structure. Technology such as the rapid growth of monitored alarm systems created two situations, one was improved security and second a higher demand on police response ( approx 95% of alarms are false). That was resolved simply with police not responding to unverified alarms which incidentally led to the creation of private guard resonse whose only function was to verify the alarm. To little to late.
Policing is expensive and IMHO the service needs to peel off some of the duties. Traffic for instance. It is a fact that behavior is modified for several weeks after receiving a ticket and the goal is for safety of the community. Why not have cameras in speed sensitive areas or at intersections or along streets to enforce rush hour parking violations? Why not have private security people perform point duty at construction sites? Paid duty is really too expensive for that job.
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
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From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
Some good points there. Here in Hamilton the police were looking for a 5% budget increase, mostly for increased wages and new hires, while pretty much every other public sector was looking at wage freezes or cuts. Meanwhile crime is down across the board, in fact at a low point, historically. They ended up getting a 3.9% increase, which is still a lot, IMO. Not sure why they're hiring more cops if crime is way down, other than to just increase revenue from tickets by harassing motorists.
Thread Starter
Team Owner
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Ontario
Same here in Halton Region, the safest large community in North America with decreasing crime incidence and a Police Service with increased budget. Granted the community is growing so that is a factor.
Last edited by JimV8; Jan 25, 2013 at 06:52 PM.
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Ottawa
I agree with you Jim, and I believe the only reason they don't move to traffic cameras (which would be effective in getting people to slow down - isn't that the goal?) is because they wouldn't see the same revenue generation from ticketing.
It's not about public safety, it's about money. And while in the private sector I would agree to money as a reason for something, it's not the police force's job to generate revenue.
It's not about public safety, it's about money. And while in the private sector I would agree to money as a reason for something, it's not the police force's job to generate revenue.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Nov 2009
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From: Toronto & Mont Tremblant
Something like 70% of a $90K+ a year constable's job can be done by a $40K a year security guard. This kind of gross inefficiency will continue until experienced professional senior managers rather than long serving career cops are put in the top job.
Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
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From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
On the other hand, there are definitely places where efficiencies can be found - the whole 'cop at every road construction site' thing drives me crazy - such a waste.
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Burning Brakes
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Guelph Ontario
Did anyone watch W5 last night?
They had a story on police quotas. Be glad you don't live in Winnipeg.
The funniest part was the slogan on the side of Winnipeg's Police cars. "Building Relationships". HA
They had a story on police quotas. Be glad you don't live in Winnipeg.
The funniest part was the slogan on the side of Winnipeg's Police cars. "Building Relationships". HA
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Race Car
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,859
Likes: 50
From: Hamilton, Ont. Canada
Ever driven in Florida? I drove from Tampa to Disney world last year, there was a cop under almost every underpass, literally. Probably saw 10 speed traps in 90 miles. It actually made me feel like we have it easy here!
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From: Toronto, Canada
Those are all great ideas. But the government does not work like that. I see the government as a business, that a is run by someone else every few years. Some of those people genially want to make their country better, but more are there for the fame, power, connections and all that leads to money. And so there are no decisions being made that might affect anyone's bottom line. Construction cites traffic being watched by cops just means that everyone has to eat. Every country's government is corrupt to some level or another. In some countries it's done in the form of cash bribery and murder, in ours I call it profit sharing that runs all the way down to a $90K/year traffic cops. That is the "gravy train" that Ford has been trying to uncover and look at how much he's been put through! In Russia he would have been shot by his own buddies by now. Here politicians use laws to clean house. Either way, they win we lose.
Sorry, got a little
there. I like the dea of less cops watching traffic. 
Sorry, got a little
there. I like the dea of less cops watching traffic.
Team Owner
Joined: Aug 2005
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From: Cambridge Ontario Canada
i keep telling you guys ... traffic violation revenues is like crack cocain to the coffers. the more trickets they give out the more money they make .. it has nothing to do with safety .. may have been one time but thos dayts are gone long ago.
In our development we have 5 schools within walking distance and people late for work constantly speed and run stop signs in the neighbourhood. There is NEVER a police officer to be seen .. if you want him you have to go over to the industrial road that leads out of the development that has no kids . schools or people of any kind, but you will find him tucked away giving speeding tickets as its a 60 zone ...
In our development we have 5 schools within walking distance and people late for work constantly speed and run stop signs in the neighbourhood. There is NEVER a police officer to be seen .. if you want him you have to go over to the industrial road that leads out of the development that has no kids . schools or people of any kind, but you will find him tucked away giving speeding tickets as its a 60 zone ...
Advanced
Joined: Sep 2012
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From: Milton,Ontario
I have a great idea! the budget allocate's lots of cash toward greedy cops that bank many , many hours of OT, paid for by the taxpayer of course, for supposedly being in court all day.
What a scam that is, i say keep them on the streets doing radar, atleast they are doing something for the high wages.
Would love to see an annual report of how many constables are pulling in 100G's or more a year "risking" their lives everyday here in Halton region.
Also, just yesterday ,in fact, i got a speeding ticket while driving down a somewhat busy street, i was doing 73 in a 50 and got pulled over, he gave me a $300 fine cause it was in a "community" safety zone, ie... seniors and kids,school, whatever.
Im guessing the only reason he was there was because some senior citizen probably called and complained about all the traffic and how people are always speeding down that road. safety zones are like bonus cash for the town.
meanwhile, drive down main roads like Derry, not designated a "safety" zone and you will see lots of drivers usually going 80 or 90 in a 60 without a single cop in sight.
What a scam that is, i say keep them on the streets doing radar, atleast they are doing something for the high wages.
Would love to see an annual report of how many constables are pulling in 100G's or more a year "risking" their lives everyday here in Halton region.
Also, just yesterday ,in fact, i got a speeding ticket while driving down a somewhat busy street, i was doing 73 in a 50 and got pulled over, he gave me a $300 fine cause it was in a "community" safety zone, ie... seniors and kids,school, whatever.
Im guessing the only reason he was there was because some senior citizen probably called and complained about all the traffic and how people are always speeding down that road. safety zones are like bonus cash for the town.
meanwhile, drive down main roads like Derry, not designated a "safety" zone and you will see lots of drivers usually going 80 or 90 in a 60 without a single cop in sight.
Nordschleife Master
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,573
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From: great white north
The biggest complaint that the city gets is speeding. The way I see them deal with it is to lower speed limits to ridiculously low limits hoping it will slow most people down to what they actually want people to drive it. That and they send out police to these spot with the highest complaints but as soon as the police leave, people then just go back to their normal driving habit and nothing is solved.
With gps and wireless technology these days why don't they limit speed by enforcing it with technology built in to the cars. If posted speed limit enforced and the car can't physically go faster then the limits that are set, then there is no need to pay police to sit there and harass normal people and they can focus on actually policing.
With gps and wireless technology these days why don't they limit speed by enforcing it with technology built in to the cars. If posted speed limit enforced and the car can't physically go faster then the limits that are set, then there is no need to pay police to sit there and harass normal people and they can focus on actually policing.
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Joined: Aug 2011
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i keep telling you guys ... traffic violation revenues is like crack cocain to the coffers. the more trickets they give out the more money they make .. it has nothing to do with safety .. may have been one time but thos dayts are gone long ago.
In our development we have 5 schools within walking distance and people late for work constantly speed and run stop signs in the neighbourhood. There is NEVER a police officer to be seen .. if you want him you have to go over to the industrial road that leads out of the development that has no kids . schools or people of any kind, but you will find him tucked away giving speeding tickets as its a 60 zone ...
In our development we have 5 schools within walking distance and people late for work constantly speed and run stop signs in the neighbourhood. There is NEVER a police officer to be seen .. if you want him you have to go over to the industrial road that leads out of the development that has no kids . schools or people of any kind, but you will find him tucked away giving speeding tickets as its a 60 zone ...
Same here is burlington, nothing to protect the children walking to school. But in the middle of nowhere they sit in a 50 zone to bust people doing 80 on country roads.
Pathetic it is.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 18
From: between TO and Barrie
Does everyone think this "gross inefficiency" is because of the average constable? Or, do you think there is too much management in Police Services?
Just curious.
Toronto Police Service Rank Profile for Uniform Positions Permanent Full-Time Employees
As of December 31, 2005 (Associum Consultants final report on TPS Employment Systems Review of Uniform Promotional Process, Oct. 2006):
Chief of Police 1
Deputy Chief of Police 4
Staff Superintendent 6
Superintendent 22
Staff Inspector 24
Inspector 35
Senior Officers 92
Staff Sergeant 162
Detective Sergeant 109
Sergeant 451
Detective 457
Sergeant/Staff Sergeant 1, 179
Constable 3,984
TOTAL
5,255
Wow....in 2005 there were 3,984 constables being supervised by 2,343 managers (Sergeants to Staff Superintendents - didn't include the civilian senior officer rank). That seems high to me.