Crash: Instructor braces himself with his feet on the dash.
05-23-2017, 10:11 PM
#61
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It is called the friction circle. Basically, your tires have so much grip, it can be used to brake/accelerate in a straight line, turn, or a combination of braking and turning (as long as the total of the 2 doesn't exceed the maximum grip). It is common practice to teach track novices to only brake in a straight line because it makes it harder to induce spin, but in the long run, it's a disservice to the student, because it's something they have to unlearn as they advance in their driving ability.
05-23-2017, 10:36 PM
#62
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It is called the friction circle. Basically, your tires have so much grip, it can be used to brake/accelerate in a straight line, turn, or a combination of braking and turning (as long as the total of the 2 doesn't exceed the maximum grip). It is common practice to teach track novices to only brake in a straight line because it makes it harder to induce spin, but in the long run, it's a disservice to the student, because it's something they have to unlearn as they advance in their driving ability.
Are you saying that because I have not mastered trail braking yet?
05-23-2017, 10:39 PM
#65
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05-23-2017, 10:40 PM
#66
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Originally Posted by Jack667
Yes - either or better both - move left (might not get all the way back to line), and more braking due to late pass/ off line. I contend that novices - with much more highway experience than track experience for these maneuvers - have a bias against passing someone and then immediately applying the brakes, especially to take a turn at a lower speed than they've been during the rest of the event (while they were on the line). IMHO, it's less about shift point and trying to get the downshift completed, vs the aversion to braking after a pass. That's just my 10+ years of coaching novices at DEs, and I *think* it applies here.
05-23-2017, 10:48 PM
#67
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05-23-2017, 10:50 PM
#68
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05-23-2017, 10:54 PM
#69
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Car wasnt out of control the driver was. Car control was ultimately lost only after leaving the track. He had room and time to attempt to correct before he left the track.
Great thread. Lots of opinion. Only thing that matters to me is can this help a Novice driver and new instructor. I hope it can.
Great thread. Lots of opinion. Only thing that matters to me is can this help a Novice driver and new instructor. I hope it can.
05-23-2017, 11:03 PM
#70
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Car wasnt out of control the driver was. Car control was ultimately lost only after leaving the track. He had room and time to attempt to correct before he left the track.
Great thread. Lots of opinion. Only thing that matters to me is can this help a Novice driver and new instructor. I hope it can.
Great thread. Lots of opinion. Only thing that matters to me is can this help a Novice driver and new instructor. I hope it can.
05-23-2017, 11:06 PM
#71
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Originally Posted by NYoutftr
????
Are you saying that because I have not mastered trail braking yet?
Are you saying that because I have not mastered trail braking yet?
05-23-2017, 11:18 PM
#72
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Not directed at you. Just saying that some of the "absolutes" that are taught to beginners are not correct. By teaching you to always brake in a straight line, and engraining that into your head, it makes it more difficult to then try to "unlearn" that habit as you learn about trail braking. It makes it seem like trail braking is a bad thing that you shouldn't even know about until you're in the advanced group. Focusing more on when to apply the brakes, and being smooth coming off the brakes is more important IMO
Coming off a hard braking smoothly from high speed and going into a tight turn more than 90 degrees without trail braking is a little tricky when you want to keep momentum going.
That's why this DE stuff is addictive
05-23-2017, 11:21 PM
#73
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05-23-2017, 11:25 PM
#74
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Lost his brakes. That's a good one.
05-23-2017, 11:30 PM
#75
Not directed at you. Just saying that some of the "absolutes" that are taught to beginners are not correct. By teaching you to always brake in a straight line, and engraining that into your head, it makes it more difficult to then try to "unlearn" that habit as you learn about trail braking. It makes it seem like trail braking is a bad thing that you shouldn't even know about until you're in the advanced group. Focusing more on when to apply the brakes, and being smooth coming off the brakes is more important IMO
It all depends on the student.
True story: on my very first track weekend I was trail braking like crazy. I had learned how to do it playing Grand Prix Legends and trashed hundreds of simulated F1 cars in the process. Turns out it was easier in real life and I was the one correcting me - my instructor never pointed it out. Not that he was a quiet type, because he sure let me know of the other stuff I wasn't doing right. I figured I must have done the trail braking decently enough not to scare him.
-Mike