Mid-Engine Has Arrived
11-17-2016, 10:34 PM
#79
Rennlist Member
11-18-2016, 09:10 AM
#80
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
At the 2015 Petit le Mans at Road Atlanta, it was pouring for almost the entire race, so much that they actually called it after 10 of the 12 hours. The 911's "crappy" rear engine design, not only won its class, but the overall race, including beating all the cars in the prototype class. Why, because no one could get anywhere near the traction coming out of the corners or climbing the hills on the rain soaked track.
Porsche has said the production 911 will remain rear engined even though the race car has moved to a mid-engine layout. I hope so as the rear seats in a 911 make it a much more practical car and is part of the reason many of us own them over something else - my wife DDs hers with our 9 and 12 year and we bought it for that purpose.
I hope Porsche doesn't become a "me too" manufacturer when it comes to the 911 as that would be a poor strategic decision, though the evolution of that model seems to suggest it's happening. Thank goodness they made so many 997s.
Porsche has said the production 911 will remain rear engined even though the race car has moved to a mid-engine layout. I hope so as the rear seats in a 911 make it a much more practical car and is part of the reason many of us own them over something else - my wife DDs hers with our 9 and 12 year and we bought it for that purpose.
I hope Porsche doesn't become a "me too" manufacturer when it comes to the 911 as that would be a poor strategic decision, though the evolution of that model seems to suggest it's happening. Thank goodness they made so many 997s.
11-18-2016, 09:21 AM
#81
Rennlist Member
Hey look- a mid engine 911 thread!!!
I havent seen one of those in days.
Lets talk about which oil we prefer too.
Mobil 1 0-40. My choice is better than yours based on no data whatsoever!!
Aaaaaaand go!!
I havent seen one of those in days.
Lets talk about which oil we prefer too.
Mobil 1 0-40. My choice is better than yours based on no data whatsoever!!
Aaaaaaand go!!
11-18-2016, 09:36 AM
#82
How far forward is the engine going in the race cars, anyway?
It could be as little as swapping engine and transmission, something Porsche has been doing for the Boxster/Cayman anyway?
Ot does the engine get to sit on the rear seats?
It could be as little as swapping engine and transmission, something Porsche has been doing for the Boxster/Cayman anyway?
Ot does the engine get to sit on the rear seats?
11-18-2016, 10:16 AM
#83
It was inevitable and years in the making. The 911 just became non-competitive due to aerodynamics and they had to make this change. If you look at the 991 you can see that they can fairly easily make it a mid-engine by getting rid of the rear seats.
My guess is that if VW gets back on their feet from the diesel gate they will develop and put in production the 960 platform, which was to be their mid-engine platform between the 911 and the 918 to compete with Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc.
If they can't afford that expenditure yet, they may push the mid engine to the 911 street car - my guess is that their plans were to keep the 911 rear engine withe the racing program as a mid-engine since those racing cars have less and less in common with the street cars.
My guess is that if VW gets back on their feet from the diesel gate they will develop and put in production the 960 platform, which was to be their mid-engine platform between the 911 and the 918 to compete with Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc.
If they can't afford that expenditure yet, they may push the mid engine to the 911 street car - my guess is that their plans were to keep the 911 rear engine withe the racing program as a mid-engine since those racing cars have less and less in common with the street cars.
11-18-2016, 10:39 AM
#84
Racer
Reading various articles it seems that the next (992?) plataform will be shared within VAG with the Audi R8, Lambo Hurrican (and maybe others) so I guess that the Porsche 911 will become more mid-engined than now (more forward engine location) but remain a 4 seater.
The Cayman could remain an entry level mid engine 2 seater below the 911 range and a new mid-engine supercar could live above the 911.
The Cayman could remain an entry level mid engine 2 seater below the 911 range and a new mid-engine supercar could live above the 911.
11-18-2016, 02:31 PM
#88
Instructor
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Is the thinking that this would have implications on the consumer cars?
Rear-engined or not, I would guess that there are a number of things different between race spec 911s and the one I can get at my local dealer...
Rear-engined or not, I would guess that there are a number of things different between race spec 911s and the one I can get at my local dealer...
11-19-2016, 05:09 PM
#89
Nordschleife Master
So, as someone who works in Professional Racing and has helped build and develop some incredible cars I have to say that the Mid vs Rear engine debate still absolutely frustrates me to no end. The absolute poor information passed around on why mid engine change was needed. I really just cant stand the terrible leadership of the FIA once again in full control of a run away train-wreck.
Let me take a long time and laugh out loud at the fact that the 2017 car still uses a motor based on a engine that has not been in production since 2012 and does not reflect the motors found inside the road going street cars. It also sounds like they have spent the money to develop the mezger further with a DI cylinder head which just proves the lack of trust in the current street motors to perform under racing conditions.
The reason for the switch to mid-engine has absolutely nothing to do with weight bias. It has to do with Aero Balance and Efficency which only came into focus as diffuser sizes were allowed to grow and grow. The Rear engine doesn't allow for a diffuser. So you have to run much greater rear wing to keep aero balance. This increase in wing angle creates alot of drag compared to other cars in its class.
Just look at the size of diffusers in this class now! HOLY ****!
No way you can compete without this advantage.
Let me take a long time and laugh out loud at the fact that the 2017 car still uses a motor based on a engine that has not been in production since 2012 and does not reflect the motors found inside the road going street cars. It also sounds like they have spent the money to develop the mezger further with a DI cylinder head which just proves the lack of trust in the current street motors to perform under racing conditions.
The reason for the switch to mid-engine has absolutely nothing to do with weight bias. It has to do with Aero Balance and Efficency which only came into focus as diffuser sizes were allowed to grow and grow. The Rear engine doesn't allow for a diffuser. So you have to run much greater rear wing to keep aero balance. This increase in wing angle creates alot of drag compared to other cars in its class.
Just look at the size of diffusers in this class now! HOLY ****!
No way you can compete without this advantage.
11-19-2016, 06:10 PM
#90
Rennlist Member
Let me take a long time and laugh out loud at the fact that the 2017 car still uses a motor based on a engine that has not been in production since 2012 and does not reflect the motors found inside the road going street cars. It also sounds like they have spent the money to develop the mezger further with a DI cylinder head which just proves the lack of trust in the current street motors to perform under racing conditions.