TXE36

What is that saying? Something like: "I use my good judgement in order to avoid having to use my awesome car control skills."

-Mike

Veloce Raptor

Mike, listen to when you go to throttle just before you spin. Way early for the severity of the corner. That means you were already off brakes

NYC993

I like how you didn't try to save it once you knew it was gone, and it just span around and stop kinda like a 911/cayman. I see often BMWs going into the wall with opposite lock trying to save it. So yea, maybe you were too slow to react in first place but you turned it into a pretty drama free spin.

I like saying that applies pretty much to life..."it's not the first mistake that gets you in trouble...

mark kibort

very true. it reminds me of what we do when we try and get loose on a rainy day. but the hands have to match the rear end. But yes, the gas-on entry was the smokin gun

mark kibort

the lift may or may not have caused this step out, but adding the gas after the lift, did you in. you can hear the gas and the additional spin that just took the rear out from under you . still, more steering input , earlier will save this situation.



ive seen more BMWs go backward into the wall after trying to save this kind of initial mistake. what is interesting is, as you say, his lack of steering input, made the rear end NOT go toward (what is usually an inside wall) because he was still steering relatively straight. full correction and riding it out, usually ends badly. however, both feet in after the back comes around is usually best, but rarely executed.

mark kibort

One last comment here that might help...you initiated a trail brake into the turn, but released it and added gas before even the apex... thats how you actually, try, and put the rear end outward. (but you can catch this with equal and opposite steering at the exact same rate. if you think about the tail of the car, tied to a string to your steering wheel, you will NEVER loop the car again. its almost impossible to spin when doing this.

so , yes, you trail braked, but released too early and actually added gas when the rear was starting to lose adhesion.

trail braking does too things. it helps to rotate the car and gives a longer slowing distance to navigate the turn by using the brakes WHILE actually turning in. too much brake bias can cause the rear end to slide a little, thats where keeping the revs up and allowing the LSD to do its thing also helps. (you were not at a bad RPM range so that isnt the cause)
when you approached the apex and released the brakes the car is near grip edge.. you added gas while still increasing steering angle and the back end just said "i give up" and slid...... quick hands or even just anticipation would have caught this, but hey, now you know.

Yes, you were trail braking well in the other video.

Now, look at the screen shots. same spot.. notice the difference??
one you are going faster AND adding more throttle with equal steering angle.
result = spin
other PB lap, no spin
going slower, no gas.
(updated with exact position screen shots)

Thundermoose

I agree with your assessment. Once the rear tires lose traction continued throttle doesn't help to "weigh down" rear. The communication is lost at that point. Clearly the hands are too slow but so is the right foot.

I think back to driving the skid pad. To induce a drift I abruptly lift and then hammer the gas and release and catch the wheel...the drift starts and then I am only working the throttle to stay in it. As soon as I let up a smidge, the rear catches and then I quickly have to correct steering.

I think Mike's video and spin employ the same physics. Once his butt sensed the loss of traction, a quick lift and steering correction would've allowed him to "stick the landing."

RyanZ06

Got any video of me in my E36 M3 LTW?

RyanZ06

Take DLS up on his offer to help oyu out with your car... From what I saw in the short period as i was getting by you, you were over driving the car and on the throtttle way too early every where... I was doing 2:32 in my E36 on NT01's.. I switched to new hankooks on sunday and ran a 2:30 but only got 3-4 laps before car was running on 5 cyl and i was done for the weekend I think 2:27-2:28 is possible. I was hoping to get video also, but the RAM mount I was using for my iphone is surprisingly unstable while bouncing over all those curbs at cota

TXE36

Really!?!? Nobody has ever said that about my driving. In fact, I've had a lot of people tell me that I need to up my aggression. Definitely food for thought.

Where you in the white E36? If so, you were flying except when I got by you on the back straight with your fist out the window - I wondered what went wrong with the car. Bad coil?

-Mike

TXE36

Bingo! Your responses got me thinking "Hmm, my throttle timing is like that a lot - not just when I spin the car. Had an epiphany when I was bedding in the new rotors at TWS this weekend and paid particular attention to when I was getting on the throttle and ensured that I waited until the apex. The timing difference is small, likely something like 250ms. While I was driving "slow" I turned a 2:03, which for me is a "hot lap". It was a holy **** moment and by the end of the "slow session" I had set a new PB. By Sunday afternoon I knocked 1.1 seconds of my previous PB driving laps that were drama free and likely the highest quality I've ever driven -- and there is still more on the table! I thought I was way past the time where over second could be gained in a single weekend.

Processing the video and data now and will start a new thread. Spinning Bad Girl in T20 at COTA appears to have been very profitable thanks to the responses here.

Back from the COTA PB thread two weeks ago:
She is in the new PB video. Yes, she is quicker, but so am I. It was good to see you guys.

-Mike

TXE36

Another great PB weekend posted here. Amazing what I learned from this spin and RL thread.

-Mike