TXE36

Again, Chin COTA last Saturday. This was the Saturday afternoon happy hour. I left a little bit of a leader before the S/F just to show what speed variation there is during the infamous Chin Happy Hour where everybody gets to get into the pool at the same time. This bad *** black prototype something or other pounces on me coming into T19 while I get my act together catching a newbie in the silver P-car (note the X'es on the back bumper) and a friend of mine in the white P-car. Also, in true Chin fashion, four arms come out the window and it's all sorted before T20:


Managed to take over 2 seconds of my best in this car from COTA back in March of 2015 and almost made it into the 2:44s with a 2:45.05.

Flame suit on, critique away. I feel like I could have been faster in the esses as well as should have tried 2nd gear in T1 and T11. I was happy with my braking into T11, T12 as well as how I did T13 to the entry of the carousel.

Thanks
-Mike

mark kibort

You are very relaxed.. too relaxed. start by gripping the wheel on both sides and get in race mode.... it's a very smooth lap and very safe lap, no where were you, the car or the engine near its limit. all three of those factors would be good for another 3- 5 seconds combined. certainly you are losing hp when you come out of a turnat 3500rpm with the e36motor. short shifting down the long straights, also costing 20-30hp for a few secs.
Later braking off the fast straights and using more of the birms. as you said, faster through the S's
Having not driven the track, im only pointing out basic stuff. experienced COTA drivers will have more to offer im sure.

do more of what this Miata is doing. you should be able to pace this kind of time in your car.

surlynkid

In the Saturday SCCA SM race back in 2013, 27 cars were under 2:45 which predates the SM7, so slower tires than available now. I don't think TXE36 is trying to compare himself to Danny Steyn.

http://www.sowdivscca.com/raceresult...%20Results.pdf

Fastest racing lap was 2:42.2. These are 1.8 AND 1.6 cars getting under 2:45 in a race environment versus more OTD style of Chin.

Veloce Raptor

Mike, I will comment more in depth later.

Go to fifth in the carousel so you can go WOT sooner.

Brake less for 19.

Trail brake 20 (look how early you are off brakes).

You need a lot more aggression in 6 and 7

Do not go to 2nd in that car anywhere

mark kibort

the point was to watch the driving of a well underpowered car HP /weight of near 19:1 vs the M3 of 15:1. A well driven higher performance street car should be able to match the best of the spec miatas. the point is not to beat the time, but to listen to them exract all he engine and grip possible . short shifting and not downshifting in several turns can make a huge diff.

mark kibort

everything sounds good except... you got it.. the "do no go into 2nd gear"

Here is an example.

I think you would agree that going into this turn at 35mph warrants 2nd gear and an RPM above 2900rpm!!!!. why? because its the turn before the LONGEST straight on the track and he is tossing away near 25hp for a few seconds. That alone could improve his PB time!

he asked the list where he could improve.. this is by far the simplest spot with no traction issues and no reason not to.

edit: I also disagree with the short shift advice to "go to WOT earlier". I think he is fine here and just needs to goose the throttle further and get on it on the exit which doesnt get near redline and is just before a hard braking zone. short shifting will bog the motor and lose a lot of HP for the exit of the Carrocel... not much but a little and introduce an extra shft and then subsequent downshift.... i dont think that is needed there.
Mk

Veloce Raptor

I am not going to get into this again with you, Mark. You do not know this car or track. Suffice it to say that he is well within the fat part of the engine torque curve in third, whereas second in that car with the 3.46 diff it has would wheel spin and would have to be up shifted at or before track out.

Veloce Raptor

Edit: and at 35 mph, Mike is 4-5 mph too slow for that corner...another reason not to use second

Ying

I am in no way qualified to be a coach or to critique your driving but I have had a lot of seat time tracking an E36 (yay e36's!) so I'll share my thoughts.

You look very smooth, which is a great starting point. You might want to try getting on throttle sooner. I think you could get on throttle quite a bit sooner in most of those turns, which, given the long straight nature of COTA would really help you out. At first, pick one turn and each lap out try to get on throttle a bit sooner. You'll be amazed at how much earlier you will be able to accelerate. I saw no signs of the back end getting loose or even neutral counter-steer (which for me, was a sign that I am getting close to the edge) so you should be able to find quite a bit of time.

As someone else mentioned, I noticed what seemed be a bit of coasting. Both before and after braking zones. Traditionally you want to be either on throttle or on the brakes. I noticed you seemed to tap the brakes in certain area's where braking probably wasn't needed (I had a bad habit about doing that myself), try to minimize this. You are smooth on the brakes, which is good as I found the ABS in the E36 to dislike hard sudden braking (more so than other cars) but I do think that you could brake later. There seems to be a bit of coasting after braking which is a sign of braking too early. This is another area that you can work on each lap out. Just like with accelerating, choose, say, one turn and work on braking later and building your entry speed each lap out.

It's great that you are recording video's with data. Watching your video's later when you get home from the track, when the adrenaline has calmed down, will really help you to see what you did right and wrong on track.

mark kibort

i dont need to get into it... you get the idea. meat of the torque curve means nothing, a lower gear once he gets straight will have MUCH more pulling power . About 30% more, so it is better to learn how to downshift and keep the wheels under you and then add gas when you can, IN the right gear. thats my take on it. it is proven to save a LOT of time. I love when my competitors use that logic. i end up mopping them up out of turns, while they think that the "meat" of the torque curve means something. it doesnt. as you say, you get too much wheel spin in 2nd. so, dont spin the wheels in 2nd and wait til you are straight. its pretty simple. i dont advise work around to proper technique. he wants to go faster, this is certainly one undisputed way to go faster.

auberlin says so too in his GS car. forget about the gearing differences, or the higher redline, just look at shift points in and out of the turns.

mark kibort

he is at 2900rpm... even at 34mph, even at 40mph, that is only 3200rpm. half of the available RPM . half the available HP.. that's half the available acceleration.
It willl help and i urge Mike to try it if he wants to go faster.

Veloce Raptor

"The meat of the torque curve means nothing". Ok, Mark...lol

Mark, that GS car is a V8 that makes essentially no torque and all of its power way way way up top. No comparison to my old car whatsoever. In addition, Bill is being paid to win, and doesn't pay for blown motors. Mike is driving a 120,000 mile motor for fun.

I am being nice because you simply don't know what you don't know...

mark kibort

i knew you were going to look at the video the wrong way.. go back to the Miata videos then!

i drove for YEARS a 150,000 motor for fun. so did all my pals with e36 M3s that ran a LOT faster than you in yours by the way.
Look, im trying to be nice too.
thats fine if you want to add to my advice. he is not your student today, he asked the list for advice and ive given him a gem that he can use to help. there is NO over reving im suggesting. infact, its very in line to the RPM limits he is using already.. so your doom and gloom prediction is just you not knowing what you dont know. Dave, the reason the meat of the torque curve means nothing, is because the next lower gear , at a slightly higher RPM, is a LOT more rear wheel Torque! that is the point of my advice.. nothing more nothing less. just knowledge that you refuse to accept. even though many here have agreed with this, here on the list as well.

the comparison is a good one, in that the M3 e36 US 3.0L motor makes all of its power up top too, if you didnt know this. just because it happens 3000RPM earlier, doesnt matter. the point is, to operate the car in the Higher HP range for better overall acceleration. running the e36 engine at half its RPM potential and half its HP level, is giving Mike, half its acceleration potential. its that simple. he doesnt need to be redlining the engine, just more cognitive of the rear wheel forces available to him. the "meat of the torque curve" means little or nothing. he will have MUCH better acceleration onto the longest straight by using 2nd gear on that particular turn going from 2900rpm to starting out at near 4000rpm. (as he does on every other turn on the track)
so, its nothing new.. just an observation to help mike

everyone has their opinions here, and Mike can use all the help here to allow himself to go faster, and that was HIS question. NOT yours.

Veloce Raptor

"A lot faster than" me in mine.

Ok Mark...lol

mark kibort

Look, sorry about that.... lets stay on topic.

Here is a little bit of information that you and Mike might want to see.

This is a generic dyno run for a US 3.0L M3 e36. similar to what you have.

if you look closely and can see the trees through the forest (ignoring the torque)
you can clearly see that if you are at 2900rpm you are near 100hp lower than if you were in the proper gear at near 4000rpm to start your acceleration down the longest straight at COTA. " the meat of the torque curve" as you say, means nothing, because as you know. acceleration is proportional to power, NOT engine torque. engine torque is high, but the HP is less than 100, so if you could be at near 200hp, you are down 100hp coming out of that turn!
Now, can mike use an extra 100hp when he is straight and WOT? i think anyone would agree, but you that the answer is "yes"!!

to put it in simple terms. mike can be at 2900 or even 3400rpm (34mph or 40mph which was his speed vs a speed you said would be better) , and the HP generated by the M3 in 3rd is 100hp or maybe 120hp. by using 2nd, that goes to near 3900rpm at 35 or 4400 at 40mph both giving Mike 60 to 80 MORE rear wheel HP! this is not something im making up.. Its fact and there is no "feeling" here.