Yeah. Ross misspoke. And so did I. And so did Sit Jackie. And so did Krause. And everyone else. And you're so much smarter and know so much more and you're just "correcting" all of us.

Right. Even though you produce 2,000 words of gibberish, you're wrong and they're right.



Mark, honestly, you just can't help yourself even when rebuked publicly by the Admin here.

 

Is there any difference between short shifting and staying in gear?

For instance, when heading into West Bend at Lime Rock I wish I had a 3.5 gear. Instead of going down to 3, which would produce a redline at coming out of apex, I just stay in 4th and ride it out into the downhill.

Accordingly, is staying in a higher gear really just the same thing as short shifting?

 

I believe they are two sides of the same concept...

 

Dave, yes, Ross did make a mistake and you posted it here. I only replied to correct the mistake and give some clarity.

This list is great because it allows us to find the truth about a myriad of topics.
nothing wrong with making a mistake or misunderstanding something here. happens all the time for all of us. What i love , is that through errors we find the truth.

I think many here know the answer but dont want to argue with you.

Im being polite as possible and only posting the facts.

In most ALL cars, taking them to redline willl provide the best acceleration. Ive provided the thrust curves to prove this. this is not only reserved for cars with HP peaks at redline as you say.... IT'S ALL CARS , but a very select few.

Here is the reason in a nutshell. if you shift your car early, you will have less force multiplied by the gear box than if you keep the car in gear to reline. regardless if redline is max HP or not. if you dont understand the thrust curves, ask. im sure i can explain them better and certainly there are those here that can as well. its all about average HP... think about the shift points as your tool to make the average HP the greatest. alll you need to know is the RPM drop due to the gear ratio. If the HP is less after a shift at redline than before reline..... redlne to optimize power and therefore acceleration . IF, in that rare case, it isnt. (and owned a car that had this phemom), then short shift. it's that SIMPLE!!.

If you step back a moment and really try and understand the facts, I bet a light will go on and you willl say, "oh, NOW i get it". At that point, you and your students will be better informed and faster! (only on the straights Dave , not curves or in the rain. )





I dont know if that is enough information, but it sounds like it not short shfting, because you are talking about entering a turn and downshifting, but on the exit, you are at redline and now need to upshift, which takes a 1/4 second.. sounds like you should keep it in 4th if you dont need the stability of the engine forces on the decel, and just accelerate out of the turn in 4th. i would have to see the turn approach on video to best comment . but the fact that you are at the apex in 3rd and at redline, tells me that its not short shifting if you come out of the turn at the apex in 4th as that is the gear you would be exiting with anyway. so, the answer is "no" this is really not short shifting, as you would be entering into the turn with the gear you should be exiting in anyway.

 

I took the meaning to be that way, IOW being in a taller gear than you otherwise would be due to track conditions to avoid awkward gear changes or to deal with traction.

-Mike

 

Goodbye, Mark.

 

I believe that to be true, it's just a matter of growing a pair and pushing harder into the corner as you can put the pedal to the floor a lot earlier in 4th with no drama and just worry about having enough track on exit..

 

Dave, if i am that obviously wrong about this to you, can you tell me on the thrust curves why and where i would want to short shift with that car (Happens to be a 911 that i posed on the previous page).
again, i get the part where we do this in certain turns, but confused as to why we would ever do this on the straight. maybe im missing something here!

 

Apparently he's back?
Just saw another "This message is hidden because mark kibort is on your ignore list."

 

I've seen at least a 1/2 dozen of those today...

-Mike

 

Figured as much - just curious if there was much difference between the two.

Yes, I'm staying in a taller gear to avoid redline and an awkward shift. So pretty much the same concept of a short shift.

 

I had assumed Bob had finally banned him... guess not.

 

Mark, did you even watch the Ross Bentley video? He says sometimes in SOME cars on Some corners, short shifting is better. You seen to imply that short shifting is NEVER a viable strategy.

Ross points out correctly that running out of revs mid corner is bad. As Pete Krause pointed out turn 6 at my home track is one of them. No way do I want to lift and shift to 4th in a 100 MPH sweeper unless I have PDK.

Obviously the converse is also true for SOME cars and SOME corners - unlike you the experienced Ross B does not make black and white statements. Frankly I am disgusted. Posts will be deleted.
Again.

 

+1

 

Bob,
I more than acknowledged his points. He said two things:
1. "A Lot of times" its better to short shift in a straight line. this is NOT TRUE. In a straight line, it's white or black for maximizing acceleration for most all cars
2. It's better to short shift through turns or lack of grip areas where shifting can hurt your ability to control the car effectively . This is very TRUE and is subjective to the track situation as he said

my only point and i thought i made it very clear. straight line acceleration is almost always sacrificed by short shifting as shown by the informative thrust curves.

i was only trying to post facts, not areas where there is any grey

thanks

Mark