multi21

I'm calling bull$hit. Mark is always claiming to be fvcking superman and always looking for an argument. If you say the sun comes up in the east, he'll tell you, "yea, maybe but..."

9 year old tires have no more oil left in them and are as hard a hockey pucks... I should know because I have several of them in my garage, well stored, unmounted in various sizes and shapes. Either that or Mark isn't driving fast enough.

(This is where VR should have inserted his infamous N... please photo.)

Veloce Raptor

tcsracing1

the greasy lawyers are the real criminals in this saga....

I wonder how much they get paid to lose....

mark kibort

or you are not knowledgeable enough or experienced enough. having run my 2004 ex WC GT toyos in recent times, i can safely say that they are near as good as they were back i the day. (maybe .5 secod slower)
i run 2008 hoosiers all the time, and they are again, maybe .5 seconds slower.
in no way are they dangerous, or have any structural issues. i do care for how i store them, and the best of my old tires are wrapped with plastic wrap, which seems to help their grip when finally selected to run on the track.

ive also run the tires that cam on the aston Martin, 2006 at the track. now, those i was a little concerned with , as there was visable wear and cracking. they didnt have the grip of the newer Aston i was also driving, but they were not dangerous. ive had race tires that heat cycled out that were far more scary! anyway, its about car control. barring the tire falling apart , there is no blame on the tire for Rodas' misfortunate descision for driving like an idiot and killig someone. always nice to blame the tires... i hear that all the time at the track.
the difference of a tire on the car for 9 years and in storage for 9 years is HUGE. my communter race tires would last a seasson, and be pulled off. my race tires were only on for 2 maybe 3 races. tires, like on the aston that were original, were garbage.... coooked. dry, and starting to crack. THOSE , as bad as they were , were only less grippy. on 3 instruction days, they didnt show any structural issues, only that they had no grip.... if anyone crashed on them, it was their own damn fault for not staying in the limit of the tire.... not a tire fault.. a driver fault... its like blaming the rain for losing control! again, a man's got to know his limitations

what are you calling bull**** on? should i show a pic of the date code of the tires i run in practice or in races that are not as important where i use "lesser" tires?
you are making a very far out there guess about what happens to tires after 9 years. im hear to tell you that i can run within a second or so of my average fast laps on tires that are this old, no problem. when i ran the 2002 toyos in 2011 at the GTGP race, i ran a 1:38 on them at laguna Seca. i slapped on some newer hoosiers and ran my 1:36.xx. that difference was not due to age but to compound. you make statements that clearly you are guessing.
and by the way, those 9 year old toyos were not dangerous , as proved by the control needed to run that kind of lap times. i, in no way, felt there were any issues with the tires. I think i still might have 2 left in the garage too. By now they are 13 years old and i would have NO issues running them in a DE or test day. they look brand new ... rubber is black and moist and tread feels fine.

Now, my reference is to cars on tires ON the track. Rodas was on the street, doing donuts and speeding down city streets!! He killed himself and a passenger with no one to blame but himself. it wasnt the car, or the tires, or anything.. it was HIM!! ALONE!

DTMiller

You heard it here first folks, nine year old tires are fine.

mark kibort

dont misread........ 9 year old tires are safe..... they might have less grip...... they are not a cause for an accident....the driver is the cause. Now, if they blew out , delaminated, etc..... then, you might be on to something. Trust me, there is a TON of exotic cars with 10k miles on them with original tires on them from 2007, that are very safe. I don't think you heard it hear first though...

now, you really want to get the layers involved... if 9 year old tires are "dangerous" why is our government not outlawing old tires on cars? why are the Rodas not suing the tire company?

go learn something. go on the labo, aston martin, ferarri lists and ask and see who has their original tires from 2005 to 2007 on cars with 10-20k miles on them
You will be surprised! And guess what, they are not dangerous.

Veloce Raptor

Once again...to less experienced folks here:

DO THE OPPOSITE OF WHAT MARK SAYS HERE.

For your own safety.

zirrah

I don't even read many of his posts and I know this to be true lol

mark kibort

Look, really, you wont drive a car with 9 year old tires, after you look at them and they are in good shape? i know the car companies , tire companies and others have to watch out for these kind law suits by saying what is not incorrect, but is for ALL situations and conditions. there is a HUGE difference between an Arizona car kept outside and a nor cal car kept in the garage. or tires stored in a basement with saran wrap over the tread. if you cant get that through your head, i cant help you. its called USING your mind. the tire companies make suggesting based on worst case senaros. i tent to think about that a little and know that a tire in good shape, not exposed to the worst case conditions, is fine for DE days, and driving around the streets, and worst case, might be .5 seconds slower on the track.
NOW< you get a blistered, cracked old heat cycled to death tire, from arizona that is 9 years old... sure, i wouldn't trust it on the track, and would be cautious on the street,,,,, but iif it didnt explode, it wouldn't be the cause of ANY handling problem other than less grip.... and that should be easy for any real driver to deal with .

Ill be putting on a 8 year old tire for practice at willow springs next month and i'm sure its going to be exactly what i expect it to be. 1 second off the pace of the newer tires ill use for qual and race, and thats the extent of the issue.
why ? Because the tires have been stored for the last 8 years in a controlled environment

oh gxd Dave, my window nets are more than 5 years old.. I'm a rebel!!!
are you sure your real name isnt Danielle?

Veloce Raptor

Seriously...

DTMiller

[nervemind, I mean....]

multi21

Mark have you noticed a pattern over a number of years? WE are all nuts but you know everything.

I've driven on 10 year old tires on the street, but KNOW they are 10 years old and they are slippery as hell. You claim to have raced on 9 year old tires on track and are only .5 off of new tires??? BULL$hit.

PM me, let me know what sizes you need and I'll sell you as many as I can find in your sizes.

BTW, will you buy heat cycled tires too? I'm sure you're probably faster on those then we are.

mark kibort

'

read this very carefully!

yeah, there are a lot of whiners here that crash and cry when their tires get more than 4 heat cycles. thats the pattern i see. i call out the obvious and anyone that cant handle something that isnt a cup car on new pirellis whine and complain. there are a lot of princesses here... are you one too?

yes, at GTGP, i ran 1:38.5 on 8 -9 year old toyo RA1s.... when i put on the hoosiers, i ran 1:36.... the fastest ever ran on RA1s was a 1:38, and that was a set that had 2 heat cycles from Michael Galatis WCGT RS6, and O'connnel's caddie back i the day.. you can call BS all you want.... anytime you come out here, i will glad to ring the school bell and run a few laps with you on those tires! they are not dangerous.. they are fine for practice on the track, and certainly no problem for any street driving. I just recently tossed the "B" set out of galati's tires. they looked brand new and im sure they would be as good today as they were back in 2011 or even 2002 when i got them. certainly i would not question their safety as they were stored properly. i only tossed them as im standardizing on hooseirs or slicks and dont need to commute to the track with the race car anymore, so i run practice on old hoosiers and race/qualify on the best ones i have.

there are two different discussions here. are 9 year old tires dangerous or if the tires grip are not as good as new, does that make them tires dangerous?
is this a driver control issue or a product failure issue. it seems to be the former to me. a good driver will know the grip and limits of the tire. a poor driver can run a perfectly good tire, cold , and destroy a car. I saw Dave V. President of Thunderhill almost kill him self and the owner of a new cup car back in 2000.. temps were 32 degrees, 10 turns later , this "expert "driver, crashed the car and almost killed them both. who's fault, the tires or the driver!!!!!!!! you make the call!

My real point here is anyone driving a car that has old tires , new tires, or flat tires, and crashes, were not driving to their limits, they were driving over them.... its that simple. about 15 years ago, i made this mistake, and learned by it the hard way. It cost me a car, but i was overdriving the tires that were bad... red mist, etc, But, they dont have to be 10 years old, they can be 3 weeks old. again, a man has to know his limitations.

mglobe

Veloce Raptor