So far, this is the best advice yet and will be doing both before the season starts.

 

Irony at it's best!

 

No didn't see that yet. We put one in to check the rocker sway bar system. You could try something similar perhaps? Oh, and you can see an extension piece between A arm and Spindle that helps reduce bump steer. It's pretty simple. Perhaps you can rig up something along those lines too?

 

Mark,

It isn't hand position, it's steering angle. In every turn in both videos, you have WAY too much steering angle all the way from apex to track out. You are massively over driving the front end of the car.

You are obviously a good driver and very fast. If you want to be even better and faster, you should just listen. I have no interest in an internet argument. You asked for input on understeer and we are just trying to help.

This driving style problem often compounds itself - as you push the front more, you dial in more oversteer which gives you the ability to push the front even more.

If you go back to basics, you WILL be slower at first and believe I'm wrong, but if you relearn slow in-fast out and a later apex, you still ultimately be much faster and double your front tire life.

 

i understand what you are saying. and the point i was trying to make was that yes, the steering (did i say hands? if i did , its because my hands are reflective of the angle. ...... hands in the same position on the wheel, but the wheel is turned WAY more angle) so, the angle was MUCH more in the first video vs the second. and if you saw the entire video, i did some experimenting doing exactly what you said. it was a condition that was just a bad , pushy car and no change was helping. i play with different ways around the track all the time, and when i find something that works best, i use it.

Now, i appreciate the driving comments, but have one comment to yours regarding the steering angle in both videos. its hard to know what the actual steering angle is, with out knowing more about the car.... thats why i posted the comparison. without it, it could be equal to a car with a less steering ratio. (as compared to a AM V8 vantage for example. .... where very little input makes a big steering angle). tire temps and wear patterns dont indicate over wear , in fact, i get quite a lot of life out of the fronts compared to others using same tires, and having the same weight, over the race weekend at the same lap times. The temps of the push day were funny hot..... the next video weekend didnt have any problem temps. thats just the temp proof there.

Ill run the next race weekend and do a few laps with the old tires with a more , "slow in , fast out " approach to see the difference. however, like i said, the comparison was to show that with some changes the steering angles were grossly different. not that the push was entirely fixed, but it substantially changed to the better. thanks for the comments.

ps.. as a note.... i dont understand your comment regarding a push with added oversteer allowing, or causing even more push. generally what i have found, is if i have a push, it looks like that first video. if i have oversteer, then that shows itself on the exit, and i have to let up on the acceleration forces which cures the understeer and oversteer, but is generally slower and not fun to drive. most of the time, the car is fastest when it has a tad of oversteer, and no understeer.

if you look at the video that was the "fixed push video".... there is really no understeer, in fact the car is handling well here. the steering angle is tracking the car fine, with no oversteer but maybe a hint at turn 9 . you can hear it.

the oversteer video is a mess on every turn.
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post12907185

 

cool. ..yes, thats what i want, but i dont know if illl have enough light or room to do that. but its similar to the rear suspension cam i had on the videos posted here on the thread.
I noticed the anti -bumpsteer extension. thats what i was talking about as well. i have to see if there is a way to do that as well. lowering that ball Joint would help with the roll center position and the bump steer issues is they are causing the problem.

I know where i can mount it... right where you did !! should have video proof the next outing!

 

You haven't run fresh tires. Until then you are guessing. Take offs start crappy and get worse. Old tires start of horrible and get really bad. So go buy some new tires and go from there when working on setup.

As for steering on 928 it isn't that much slower than other cars.

Boxster 16.9-1 vs 17.75-1 for the 928. Noy nearly enough to explain the level of steering input you have in those videos.

 

+1

 

Yeah, i get that... im finally breaking down and doing it. actually , quite excited about it.
there were some that i knew what i was getting into, and those worked great for a race or two. the ones on the video, were old, used by WCGT and were toyoRA1s they were really bad! (and some i had were actually pretty good at the time.)

As far as steering...... ive been in quite a few cars on the track, and the 928 is the worse as far as steering ratios. the ratio only tells a portion of the story.
again, you can see the steering angle on the two videos. one is about 90 degrees different than the other, when the push was addressed and dialed out.
thats a lot. If you compare to even another 928 that ran top 10 in WCGT, you can see its pretty close to the same and he has all the bumpsteer and slop out of the suspension components with Motons, he had very little push at all.

Ill go with the new tires in the season opener and see what i see. (with the go pro mounted to see the front suspension)

thanks

by the way... i dont think the boxster is 16.6.. ive read that its 12.5 which is a huge difference. ( I think its variable too... maybe a range of 16.5 at the center to 12.5 at the end?)

bmw's and S2000s which are running quite a bit in the SCCA races, have ratios of near 13 to 15 :1... is a big difference.

 

Another associated question arises when talking about new tyres and improving mechanical grip...What oiling system do you have over and above stock? From what I understand the 928 can suffer similar rod bearing issues when subjected to prolonged G forces. The 944 motors are particularly prone to long fast left handers. As you increase grip levels you are getting closer to engine failure if you don't have safeguards imho.

Overall, I think you do very well on a strict budget...but would suggest trying to put together a few dollars and take the car to a good shop or engineer. I'd bet there is a way of replacing the stock steering rack for not a ton of money too. Imagine how much difference a better rack and some suspension modifications would make? You may not even need to change the rack with geometry corrections and generally better standard of rubber.

 

Patrick,

This car has been a race car for many many years......

 

Scott

Are you referring to the oiling system?

 

Hello - I said this 3 pages ago

 

Yep. So did Earlier Apex.

Sigh...

 

I'd add that 'Slow in-Fast out' doesn't work in quite the same way for front engine / transaxle cars as it does for rear engine Porsches. But also acknowledge that there's a point where pushing harder and turning the steering wheel more results in diminishing improvements...