Preliminary PCA Club Racing Rule Changes
10-14-2015, 09:46 PM
#1
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Preliminary PCA Club Racing Rule Changes
Thoughts?
1. Preliminary 2016 Rules Changes
Here are the rules changes the PCA Club Race Rules Committee proposes to adopt for 2016. Racers may send comments to crrules@pca.org through November 1, 2015 on ambiguities, typographical or other errors in specifications, and problems with these changes which may have been overlooked by the Committee. This does not include discussion of changes not listed as proposed here. The numbered paragraphs reference the numbering in the July announcement of potential changes for consideration. Those which were not accepted do not appear here. Unnumbered paragraphs are rules changes which need to be made despite not being put forth for comment.
STOCK
1) Shock absorbers are free providing they are in the same location and use the same pick-up points as supplied by the factory, with no limits on adjustability or location of the reservoir. Electronically adjustable shocks are only allowed on models so equipped from the factory, and those must remain stock. Only the stock electronically adjustable shocks may be adjusted, using the factory switch, by the seated driver. If a hose passes through an inner fenderwell to accommodate an external reservoir, a bulkhead fitting or tight rubber grommet must be used to seal the hole.
2) Passenger seats may be removed.
-The minimum weights for these E class models are reduced by 100 pounds: 86-88 944 Turbo (non-S), 87-88 944S (Club Sport/Firehawk), and 89-91 944S2. Comment on this change is especially invited.
SPB
3) The cylinder resleeving allowance for other models applies to SPB, but only the stock pistons may be used.
SP996
4) The approved Getty Design 996 Spec Wing may be raised four inches to gain better rear vision, but may not otherwise be altered or repositioned.
GTB
6) The 2014 and later 981 Cayman S 3.4 liter car will remain in GTB2. But all the other current GTB2 cars become GTB3. Minimum weights are unchanged except for the correction found in 8) below for the 997 DFI X51 cars.
-The Cayman GT4 is added to GTB3 at a minimum weight of 3105 pounds. The only bodywork changes allowed for the GT4 are replica GT4 parts, and the GT4 wing must be used.
-981 Caymans may run in GTB3 at the GT4 weight with the GT4 engine [here list engine model number or numbers]. They may, but are not required to, use any of the GT4 suspension parts. Their body work may be 981 or GT4 or replicas, but only the GT4 wing may be used.
-987C GTB1 Caymans may run in GTB3 at the GT4 weight with the GT4 engine [here list engine model number or numbers]. They must retain their GTB1 suspension, transmissions, and gears. The GT4 wing may be used in addition to the GTB1 wings.
7) Replica aftermarket bodywork parts of alternate materials are allowed as long as they are bolt-on parts (that is, that they are parts like bumpers, hoods, hatches, front fenders, and doors). This allowance applies only if ballast is limited to 50 pounds.
8) GTB2 2009 and later 997s with the X51 option must weigh 3250 pounds.
9) The minimum weights of the 911s in GTB1 are reduced by 100 pounds.
-The minimum weight of the 2006-2008 Cayman in GTB1 is reduced to 2720 pounds.
-PDK in GTB: GTB1 and GTB2 cars with PDK must add 100 pounds to the model specified weight (note this is not a change for GTB1). GTB 3 cars must add 125 pounds to the model specified weight.
-Porsche torque vectoring (PTV), and any other forms of traction control (but not including mechanical limited slip differentials) which are not standard features of the model, are not permitted in GTB, and the ABS and other systems may not be modified to provide traction control.
-Racers in the GTB classes are advised that PCA Club Racing has the right, on one month's notice, to increase or decrease the minimum weights assigned to any of the models in these classes.
GTC1
10) Shocks are free as long as they are in the stock location using the stock pickup points, do not include external reservoirs, are not cockpit or electronically adjustable, and no modification is made to the strut housing to allow adjustment. .
GTC 3
11) Any of the gears listed in the Factory manual for these Carrera Cup factory race cars are allowed.
GTC 4-6
11a) Only the Carrera Cup Germany gears specific to each model are allowed in these classes. The allowance for other gears for races over one hour in the Carrera Cup Germany rules do not apply to these classes.
11b) The Supercup ceramic brake rotors (PCCB) are not allowed, but the Carrera Cup steel rotors may be used with the yellow calipers, and the Supercup smaller rear master cylinder may be used with the steel rotors.
General Compliance
-Cars, other than in the GT1-6 and GTP classes, which came from Porsche with OBD data ports must retain that port in an easily accessible location and with all its wiring intact (i.e., don't cut any of these wires in order to attach data or other systems). Data from these ports, both on the track and at tech, are used in compliance checking.
Here are the rules changes the PCA Club Race Rules Committee proposes to adopt for 2016. Racers may send comments to crrules@pca.org through November 1, 2015 on ambiguities, typographical or other errors in specifications, and problems with these changes which may have been overlooked by the Committee. This does not include discussion of changes not listed as proposed here. The numbered paragraphs reference the numbering in the July announcement of potential changes for consideration. Those which were not accepted do not appear here. Unnumbered paragraphs are rules changes which need to be made despite not being put forth for comment.
STOCK
1) Shock absorbers are free providing they are in the same location and use the same pick-up points as supplied by the factory, with no limits on adjustability or location of the reservoir. Electronically adjustable shocks are only allowed on models so equipped from the factory, and those must remain stock. Only the stock electronically adjustable shocks may be adjusted, using the factory switch, by the seated driver. If a hose passes through an inner fenderwell to accommodate an external reservoir, a bulkhead fitting or tight rubber grommet must be used to seal the hole.
2) Passenger seats may be removed.
-The minimum weights for these E class models are reduced by 100 pounds: 86-88 944 Turbo (non-S), 87-88 944S (Club Sport/Firehawk), and 89-91 944S2. Comment on this change is especially invited.
SPB
3) The cylinder resleeving allowance for other models applies to SPB, but only the stock pistons may be used.
SP996
4) The approved Getty Design 996 Spec Wing may be raised four inches to gain better rear vision, but may not otherwise be altered or repositioned.
GTB
6) The 2014 and later 981 Cayman S 3.4 liter car will remain in GTB2. But all the other current GTB2 cars become GTB3. Minimum weights are unchanged except for the correction found in 8) below for the 997 DFI X51 cars.
-The Cayman GT4 is added to GTB3 at a minimum weight of 3105 pounds. The only bodywork changes allowed for the GT4 are replica GT4 parts, and the GT4 wing must be used.
-981 Caymans may run in GTB3 at the GT4 weight with the GT4 engine [here list engine model number or numbers]. They may, but are not required to, use any of the GT4 suspension parts. Their body work may be 981 or GT4 or replicas, but only the GT4 wing may be used.
-987C GTB1 Caymans may run in GTB3 at the GT4 weight with the GT4 engine [here list engine model number or numbers]. They must retain their GTB1 suspension, transmissions, and gears. The GT4 wing may be used in addition to the GTB1 wings.
7) Replica aftermarket bodywork parts of alternate materials are allowed as long as they are bolt-on parts (that is, that they are parts like bumpers, hoods, hatches, front fenders, and doors). This allowance applies only if ballast is limited to 50 pounds.
8) GTB2 2009 and later 997s with the X51 option must weigh 3250 pounds.
9) The minimum weights of the 911s in GTB1 are reduced by 100 pounds.
-The minimum weight of the 2006-2008 Cayman in GTB1 is reduced to 2720 pounds.
-PDK in GTB: GTB1 and GTB2 cars with PDK must add 100 pounds to the model specified weight (note this is not a change for GTB1). GTB 3 cars must add 125 pounds to the model specified weight.
-Porsche torque vectoring (PTV), and any other forms of traction control (but not including mechanical limited slip differentials) which are not standard features of the model, are not permitted in GTB, and the ABS and other systems may not be modified to provide traction control.
-Racers in the GTB classes are advised that PCA Club Racing has the right, on one month's notice, to increase or decrease the minimum weights assigned to any of the models in these classes.
GTC1
10) Shocks are free as long as they are in the stock location using the stock pickup points, do not include external reservoirs, are not cockpit or electronically adjustable, and no modification is made to the strut housing to allow adjustment. .
GTC 3
11) Any of the gears listed in the Factory manual for these Carrera Cup factory race cars are allowed.
GTC 4-6
11a) Only the Carrera Cup Germany gears specific to each model are allowed in these classes. The allowance for other gears for races over one hour in the Carrera Cup Germany rules do not apply to these classes.
11b) The Supercup ceramic brake rotors (PCCB) are not allowed, but the Carrera Cup steel rotors may be used with the yellow calipers, and the Supercup smaller rear master cylinder may be used with the steel rotors.
General Compliance
-Cars, other than in the GT1-6 and GTP classes, which came from Porsche with OBD data ports must retain that port in an easily accessible location and with all its wiring intact (i.e., don't cut any of these wires in order to attach data or other systems). Data from these ports, both on the track and at tech, are used in compliance checking.
10-15-2015, 02:44 PM
#4
Rennlist Member
Good luck.
10-15-2015, 04:45 PM
#5
Drifting
I still don't understand why the 2.7 Boxsters don't have SPB allowance with added weight and/or subclass like they do for 944's
M
M
10-15-2015, 08:35 PM
#6
Perfect Angel
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Don't mess with SPB!
If they want a 2.7 they should propose a new class like SPX or something. Or E.
The class is growing so car count isn't a factor. No need to complicate a good series.
If they want a 2.7 they should propose a new class like SPX or something. Or E.
The class is growing so car count isn't a factor. No need to complicate a good series.
10-15-2015, 09:12 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
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10-19-2015, 08:07 PM
#10
Racer
I'm guessing this was an oversight. This rule change was probably in response to a suggestion I made to re-class the front engine cars based on power to weight which would put us somewhere in the middle of the D class.
The feedback was along the lines of: the 911 E class drivers are fast drivers, but the 944/968s are fast cars. It was longer of course, but that seemed to be the essence.
100lbs isn't enough anyway. I made this argument specific to the 944S2, but applies to other front engined cars:
The 911SC Euro (204HP) and the 911 Carrera (207HP) have very similar production flywheel horsepower ratings to the 944S2 (208HP), but they enjoy a 380 lbs. and 303 lbs. advantage respectively compared to the 944S2. . This difference (14% and 11%) not only provides an advantage in acceleration, but braking and cornering as well. Also, a dyno sheet for a Buckley 911SC was posted on this forum showing it making over 210HP at the rear wheels. The best my car ever made was about 200HP, or about 5% less. With an almost 20% power to weight advantage it's not close.
I think the 100lbs (3%) was just throwing us a bone.
You and I (and maybe a couple others) are just the last ones to "get the memo". If you look at registration numbers E and F went from mostly a front engine class to a rear engine only class over the last few years.
SP3, here I come!.
Greg
11-12-2016, 01:46 PM
#11
The Penguin King
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+ 1billion. Unless there is a shortage of donor cars, why would you want to complicate a successful class? And the last thing club racing needs is another class frankly.
11-13-2016, 10:51 AM
#12
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11-13-2016, 05:18 PM
#13
WRONGLY ACCUSED!
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Please visit my comments early on in the SPC thread! There are a bunch of H and I class cars that are going into SPC this year - me included.
08-07-2017, 04:05 AM
#14
There's a nice article in Dec. 2016 Panarama. In it they interview Alan Friedman, basically the man who introduced the PCA to racing. It's a great article and I highly recommend it to those of you who try to compare PCA to SCCA etc racing. The core philosophy is different. In it they point out that PCA racing is more comparable to vintage racing. The cars are the stars. And the stars want to always stay looking good.
08-10-2017, 06:27 PM
#15
Rennlist Member
This type of issue has been my problem with fairness with PCA classing. (which other types have bled over to the other porsche racing organizations)
you think the 944 is classed unfairly with extra weight (like 2 extra passengers) just think how a 928 would be classed unfairly, with near 700lbs to stop and turn on a race course near you!
for a group taking the rules so seriously, its amazing to me that the common sense and simple physics rarely is taken into account.
personally, almost all racing organizations would benefit by a standard HP/weight ration plus an absolute weight range........ but that seems to be tossing logic out into the wind!
you think the 944 is classed unfairly with extra weight (like 2 extra passengers) just think how a 928 would be classed unfairly, with near 700lbs to stop and turn on a race course near you!
for a group taking the rules so seriously, its amazing to me that the common sense and simple physics rarely is taken into account.
personally, almost all racing organizations would benefit by a standard HP/weight ration plus an absolute weight range........ but that seems to be tossing logic out into the wind!
Hi Jim,
I'm guessing this was an oversight. This rule change was probably in response to a suggestion I made to re-class the front engine cars based on power to weight which would put us somewhere in the middle of the D class.
The feedback was along the lines of: the 911 E class drivers are fast drivers, but the 944/968s are fast cars. It was longer of course, but that seemed to be the essence.
100lbs isn't enough anyway. I made this argument specific to the 944S2, but applies to other front engined cars:
The 911SC Euro (204HP) and the 911 Carrera (207HP) have very similar production flywheel horsepower ratings to the 944S2 (208HP), but they enjoy a 380 lbs. and 303 lbs. advantage respectively compared to the 944S2. . This difference (14% and 11%) not only provides an advantage in acceleration, but braking and cornering as well. Also, a dyno sheet for a Buckley 911SC was posted on this forum showing it making over 210HP at the rear wheels. The best my car ever made was about 200HP, or about 5% less. With an almost 20% power to weight advantage it's not close.
I think the 100lbs (3%) was just throwing us a bone.
You and I (and maybe a couple others) are just the last ones to "get the memo". If you look at registration numbers E and F went from mostly a front engine class to a rear engine only class over the last few years.
SP3, here I come!.
Greg
I'm guessing this was an oversight. This rule change was probably in response to a suggestion I made to re-class the front engine cars based on power to weight which would put us somewhere in the middle of the D class.
The feedback was along the lines of: the 911 E class drivers are fast drivers, but the 944/968s are fast cars. It was longer of course, but that seemed to be the essence.
100lbs isn't enough anyway. I made this argument specific to the 944S2, but applies to other front engined cars:
The 911SC Euro (204HP) and the 911 Carrera (207HP) have very similar production flywheel horsepower ratings to the 944S2 (208HP), but they enjoy a 380 lbs. and 303 lbs. advantage respectively compared to the 944S2. . This difference (14% and 11%) not only provides an advantage in acceleration, but braking and cornering as well. Also, a dyno sheet for a Buckley 911SC was posted on this forum showing it making over 210HP at the rear wheels. The best my car ever made was about 200HP, or about 5% less. With an almost 20% power to weight advantage it's not close.
I think the 100lbs (3%) was just throwing us a bone.
You and I (and maybe a couple others) are just the last ones to "get the memo". If you look at registration numbers E and F went from mostly a front engine class to a rear engine only class over the last few years.
SP3, here I come!.
Greg