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"E" and "D" class?

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Old 05-01-2015 | 05:19 PM
  #241  
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Originally Posted by deputydog95
Well, we're a step closer to figuring out the brakes. Apparently the car has carrera calipers and rotors on it. So either the booster is bad, or there is a different booster from the SC to the Carrera models and that's why I'm getting the funny play in the pedal. Either way, looks like I'm buying calipers and rotors to make it compliant with the rules.

Looking at the brake rules, nothing is mentioned about the E-brake... Are we required to keep it or can I get rid of the whole assembly? It doesn't say you can't remove it, but I'm not sure how weird PCA gets with this stuff.
More than likely, if there isn't a component problem(like a bad MC) it's probably due to to much free play in the pedal cluster adjustment.

You can adjust the brake pedal height at the cluster to make it easier to heal/toe.

If you adjust it too low, you will have to much "free play" in the pedal before you actuate the master cylinder.



You can have a great handling T-bar 911 without breaking the bank.

The majority of racers don't need/ can't take advantage of adjustable shocks or crazy big T-bars.

My old 79 SC that I raced in E prep and F prep had a pretty basic suspension that was very effective.

23 mm front T-bars(most guys like 24 mm, I prefer a neutral to over steering car)
33 mm rear T-bars

Properly sized front A-arm poly bushings

Smart Racing Front Swaybar

Smart Racing Camber plates/ strut bar

Steering rack spacers

Rear Elephant Poly bronze Spring plate bushings

Elephant quick change spring plates

Smart Racing rear Swaybar

Elephant Von shocks(rebaged Bilsteins)

Front non adjustable strut inserts
Rear rebound adjustable shocks


That was a great handling car, it took me awhile to get my 964 to feel as good as my the 79 did.

Still prefer the steering on the 79... the ABS cars have different geometry(neg. scrub radius),and don't have the same feel.
Old 05-01-2015 | 05:27 PM
  #242  
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Charlie Bars were made by Wrightwood racing.

Charlie Spira is the owner.

They were a higher quality alternative to the more common Weltmeister sways back in the day.

Pretty sure they are no longer madea nd you can't get parts for them but not 100%.

Might be worth selling them to someone as spares and putting on Smart Racing or Tarett's, if you going to doing a lot of racing. Much easier to get spares for/find someone at the track with parts, if you have a problem.
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Old 05-01-2015 | 05:30 PM
  #243  
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What about the emergency brake? Is it legal to ditch it and the whole assembly that goes with it?
Old 05-01-2015 | 05:31 PM
  #244  
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Originally Posted by deputydog95
What about the emergency brake? Is it legal to ditch it and the whole assembly that goes with it?
It doesn't specifically state that they can be removed, but it has never been a problem.

Probably something that should be clarified in the rule book.

I know lot of cars don't have them, including mine.
Old 05-01-2015 | 05:33 PM
  #245  
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Originally Posted by flatsics
Charlie Bars were made by Wrightwood racing.

Charlie Spira is the owner.

They were a higher quality alternative to the more common Weltmeister sways back in the day.

Pretty sure they are no longer madea nd you can't get parts for them but not 100%.

Might be worth selling them to someone as spares and putting on Smart Racing or Tarett's, if you going to doing a lot of racing. Much easier to get spares for/find someone at the track with parts, if you have a problem.
How do you adjust the charlie bar? My rear bar is black and has two holes. Doesn't look what's in the picture.
Old 05-01-2015 | 05:34 PM
  #246  
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Originally Posted by flatsics
yep
Cool. E-brake is coming out for sure then when we put legal calipers back on.
Old 05-01-2015 | 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by deputydog95
Cool. E-brake is coming out for sure then when we put legal calipers back on.
I adjusted my post, and am looking into it for an "official" answer.
Old 05-01-2015 | 05:55 PM
  #248  
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Originally Posted by flatsics
I adjusted my post, and am looking into it for an "official" answer.
Thanks. Let me know what you find out.
Old 05-01-2015 | 06:00 PM
  #249  
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Originally Posted by deputydog95
Apparently the car has carrera calipers and rotors on it.
Carrera brakes on an E class Euro SC? Are you sure? Take a picture and post it so we can confirm.
Old 05-01-2015 | 06:01 PM
  #250  
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Originally Posted by deputydog95
How do you adjust the charlie bar? My rear bar is black and has two holes. Doesn't look what's in the picture.
You sure it's not a stock bar with an extra hole drilled in it?
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Old 05-01-2015 | 06:07 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by flatsics
You really need to educate yourself on the present day set-up of the torsion bar 911's.

Your car looks like that in your pic, because it isn't properly set-up.

Too soft of a rear spring rate.

You don't need triple adjustable shocks, to get it to handle flat.

For the hp/weight ration of D and E cars, a 275 mm rear tire is more than adequate.

You can get -3.0 deg of front camber with these.
http://www.elephantracing.com/suspen...amberplate.htm
That car is a stock 1970 911S with old school BFG R1s, circa 1994... I think it demonstrates the fundamental dynamics of a 911.

I don't think PCA Stock rules allow adjustment of front camber, but I could be wrong.
Old 05-01-2015 | 06:30 PM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by flatsics
You sure it's not a stock bar with an extra hole drilled in it?
Bingo. That's exactly what my bar looks like. Except with a second hole drilled right next to the first hole. I guess that's one way to make an adjustable sway bar Looks like I need to go bar shopping now. My cheap E class car is starting to add up



Originally Posted by Astroman
Carrera brakes on an E class Euro SC? Are you sure? Take a picture and post it so we can confirm.
The car lives in Orlando (about 2 hours away) so I can't take pics. But I spoke with the shop owner and he confirmed it has Carrera brakes on it. One of the clues was that the rotors that came on the car were shot and he just replaced them with Carrera rotors He is an HSR/SVRA guy and assumed the caliper change was ok because the Carrera rotors last much longer than SC rotors. I whipped out the 2015 rule book and instructed him to order new calipers that were compliant. Sigh....
Old 05-01-2015 | 08:43 PM
  #253  
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Originally Posted by JCP911S
That car is a stock 1970 911S with old school BFG R1s, circa 1994... I think it demonstrates the fundamental dynamics of a 911.

I don't think PCA Stock rules allow adjustment of front camber, but I could be wrong.
2. Suspension
F. Bolt-in devices (e.g. camber plates) that allow for camber adjustment at the top of the shock are allowed. Machining of the shock tower is not permitted. Shock dust covers may be removed.
Old 05-01-2015 | 08:48 PM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by John H
If its an 82 Euro, it's not a D car. Doesn't appear to have the Euro side markers but...82 Euro SC's are in E. 2015 PCA Rules page 39.
Car has been painted a few times in it's life. lol
Car is either a euro 1980SC or a 1982SC non sunroof american car with Euro upgraded motor.
Waiting to find out the history...
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Old 05-01-2015 | 11:20 PM
  #255  
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Originally Posted by flatsics
Charlie Bars were made by Wrightwood racing.

Charlie Spira is the owner.

They were a higher quality alternative to the more common Weltmeister sways back in the day.

Pretty sure they are no longer madea nd you can't get parts for them but not 100%.

Might be worth selling them to someone as spares and putting on Smart Racing or Tarett's, if you going to doing a lot of racing. Much easier to get spares for/find someone at the track with parts, if you have a problem.
That picture shows the type of rear bar that was on the car when I owned it. I think the mystery is starting to unravel.


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