Manifold

The recent revival of this thread is timely for me, since I've decided to take the plunge and get a sim setup. Budget is roughly $10K. I prefer not to fiddle with gadgets, so I'm looking for an integrated system, rather than trying to assemble components myself. Goal is to be able to get as close as I can to the experience of driving on real tracks, from the convenience of my home, in a variety of cars at a variety of tracks (would love to be able to drive many of "famous" tracks around the world, that I likely won't get to in real life). Ability to race is highly preferred, but not absolutely mandatory.

I read through the thread quickly, and it seems like Sim Seat may still be good, but VR may be the future - can VR be used with Sim Seat? Also seems like motion may not be realistic enough except in high-end rigs? I'm not at all prone to motion sickness on track in either seat, even at notorious tracks like Shenandoah, but have never tried a sim and am not a gamer, so I don't know how prone I'd be to motion sickness with a sim.

Recommendations would be much appreciated!

ProCoach

Better to buy a really good static sim for this budget than even a build your own motion rig.

VR can be integrated into just about any commercially available sim.

Sim Seat is integrated, vetted and offers support. And you could come in under your budget.

You should head down to Richmond and take a test drive...

Manifold

Sounds good, trip to Richmond probably makes sense. Can you recommend a software platform for the car and track sims? I'm an absolute novice to sim world, so primarily in the "dumb questions" category.

Edit: Just saw that all of the Sim Seats packages are labelled iracing packages. I guess that means they have to be used with iracing?

MSR Racer

All you need is iracing sign up

MSR Racer

matt33

Manifold

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll do some reading to learn more about these options.

Realism of the experience is definitely an important factor for me, since I want my sim learning to translate to driving on real tracks. I'm a bit leery about becoming counterproductively accustomed to a motion system which simulates motion unrealistically due to time lag, lack of sustained g-forces, etc., so maybe motion is out for me for that reason alone.

User 52121

I think there's good suggestions here for equipment.

I think that, in my opinon, if you're looking for pre-assembled, turn-key, with that equipment - then staying under a $10k limit is going to be tough. Might be doable if there's a seller out there with small margins for a hobby/side-gig. Most guys factor in long-term support costs.... if your rig works great for 5 months, then a Windows Update comes out and breaks it, or you let your kids or nephews load up Duke Nukem on it and THAT breaks it, you'll likely be looking for the builder to help you with it. Takes time.

A lot of the pre-built turn-key setups I've seen for that price point generally include Logitech wheels, etc. Cheap stuff for what you're paying. I looked into starting a side thing myself building rigs... my vision was good/high end legit "trainer level" equipment for "attainable" pricing - I wanted to keep usable rigs down under $10k and in the end it barely left anything for my time to put it all together.

Not sure where you're located - I assume close to ProCoach - but I would definitely recommend a "test drive" if you have the ability to do so.

Really these aren't SUPER complicated to build if you have a little patience and willingness to experiment. Off-the-shelf PC from Dell or MicroCenter (they have some good deals on pre-built machines), help from the community to assemble the components and an afternoon, and you'll be up and running. DIY and you can definitely be under $10k.

mig7410

If you are close to Indy there is a company called Race Craft 1 http://www.racecraft1.com/
Kelly Jones will build you a system I'm sure within your budget. I have seen where he has traveled to put the systems together, but that will add to the bill.
He is also a lead instructor with 10/10ths and is very much into making it as realistic as possible. I did a 3 hour class with his sim, and my wife did a 12 hour. Learned quite a bit.
I run a Accurforce wheel with HPP pedals and Rseat rig. Three 50" monitors and a butt kicker. I do mostly Iracing, it's a great wintertime activity.

Manifold

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm in Maryland, so not too far from Richmond, VA.

The budget of $10K is somewhat flexible. I've been hoping it's enough to get something pretty good, but I didn't want to spend too much on a first sim system, since I don't know how much I'll wind up using it.

For those who have a lot of experience with both sim and real tracks, I'm curious: how realistic do you find sims in the $5-15K price range to be? How well does does sim experience translate to the track, and in what ways (if any) is inaccuracy of the sim detrimental to track driving? Is lack of realistic G-forces and other aspects of motion a major shortcoming? How much do you enjoy using a sim vs going to the track?

I've been a bit dismissive about sim in the past, instead preferring "the real thing," but with all the rave reviews for VR and continuing big increases in computer power, my interest in sim is piqued. The notion of being able to have a decent percentage of the experience of driving the Nurburgring, as often as I want, without having to leave home, is enticing.

FLA997

I was the same way for a long time, but if you race I find it a fairly valuable tool to stay "sharp" in terms of situational awareness/cars around you at speed, etc. It can get quite intense, believe it or not. I was pleasantly surprised.

Also a really good way to get acclimated to a new track.

MSR Racer

I think you will be quite surprised as to how authentic it feels in a sim...especially the rendering of the tracks. G forces however are all simulated. Best motion rigs I have tried are nowhere near like a real race car. I have driven my cup car and a motion rig back to back at a well known race track and come back way disappointed.
However, with a "static system" equipped with DD wheel, high-end brake pedals, triples or VR and simVibe, you get pretty close to real world feel in terms of feedback. I think the work on sims help on track. It also helps during dry spells between races and the long winter break!!

In the Sim world, in iRacing, the fastest kids (called "aliens") are sometimes faster than professional drivers on the sim. I think they do things we would not try in a real race car. Its fun to see all that though. If you do Sim racing on line, be prepared to get cussed out by 15 year-olds from Latvia who will think you are a moron and tell you that you don't know to how drive!!!

ProCoach

If this is true, the iRacing laser scanned tracks are what you want. I've often hosted private online sessions to do detailed "track walks" using iRacing, and have never been disappointed.

Be aware that the GPU (graphics processing unit) is the most important single component for rendering detail in the video recreation of a track. iRacing is "auto-scaling" which means the more powerful a card you have, the more detail it will draw.

While MSR Racer has good recommendations, the reason Sim Seats may be worthwhile is because they're CLOSE, the systems are turn-key and the support is there. When you do your own assembly, it's a pain in the *** to get everything working just right.

With any responsible builder, you can integrate up-market components like the HE pedals (or the HPP's, which are of even better construction) and DD wheels, but these are luxuries, not neccessities. Do the test drive!

I have several Cup car drivers who I coach that have Sim Seats rigs and while basic, they do the job just fine. Mark Lutes does a fine job down in the Atlanta area, as well.

With substantial time on a wide variety of motion rigs up to and including a $650K Cruden Hexapod, there's a reason why I still have a static sim for my own personal use. Even after twenty-one years of sim driving and coaching.

User 52121

All of the above.

If you look at it as a tool to learn "how to drive" - its a bad idea. Granted the cars do handle authentically but without the "fear" or consequence.... I think you're more willing to TRY things in sim. Heard many bad stories from fellow instructors who have newbie students claim "Well it worked in the simulator!"

If you look at as a tool to learn "how to race" - I think it's excellent. Racecraft, mental training, etc. it's perfect. Especially iRacing where all the other cars are real people (vs. AI) and (usually) nobody wants to ruin someone else's night.

The realism coming from the software will only take you so far. Equipment plays a factor too.

I'm actually trying to work on a blog/essay/PCA regional article about this - to nutshell it: I look at it like hi-fi audio gear. If the goal is to just "listen to music" then the free earbuds that came with your cellphone and some 128k MP3's will do the job. If your goal is to *feel like you're there in the room with the musicians* then it's going to take better software and audio gear.

If you want to just "play around" then go buy a wheel/pedal combo at Best Buy, a Playstation, and a copy of Gran Turismo. It'll look pretty (the PS4 and XBOX graphics are pretty amazing these days) and you'll have some fun.

If you want to actually simulate racing, and feel like you're there.... then you need better equipment. Buying just the software will only do so much - just like investing in a set of 96k lossless audio tracks really won't sound any better if you're playing them through your iPhone's built-in speaker.

And like audio gear - it's certainly diminishing returns for the dollar - but there is an initial big step up. Going from a $200 steering wheel to a $2000 steering wheel is HUGE. Going from a $2000 steering wheel to a $5000 steering wheel is only marginally better. Just like going from your earbuds to something from even, say, Bose or Klipsch (ugh....) is going to be a big step up. Moving from a nice mid-fi pair of $5,000 DynAudio speakers into a $60,000 pair of B&W's... better, but not the same quantum leap relative to the dollars spent.

JustinL

Or come racing with us who are all mature Rennlist guys and we toss out anyone who acts like a *****!