mark kibort

well, as you know, HP includes torque.... its a torque issue (at the rear tires), but HP is the indicator of how bad it will be or its potential. if you are max HP at that turn, then the rear wheel torque will be at its greatest potential for the car at that speed, even though you might not have max engine torque. again, think "brake stand" and you can see why sometimes LFB might not be a good idea "always".

mark kibort

I was just thinking about your last sentence on the firs paragraph. no, you cant drop the nose with LFB under accelerating. actually, it will lift the nose if you are still accelerating by applying front brake. think about a car with brakes applied standing still. you push on the rear of the car. front wheels are locked, the chassis can rotate round the tire, but if you have a suspension that doesn't move forward, there will be no deceleration, and thus no weight transfer. if you are decelerating, then yes, you have weight transferred, at the cost of the effective reduction of rear brake bias. (because you are still WOT and rear tires are still generating forces that the fronts are trying to counteract). this is where it can be dangerous in a high powered car .....(see brake stand analogy)

KaiB

You can't drop the nose of the car under throttle while LFB...

I'll remember that, despite the many videos I have of warming the tires on the out lap which clearly show the nose dropping.

Must be my 17 year-old dampers...

mark kibort

Hey, I resemble that !!! (hey, my dampers were just sent off to the Koni guy at sears!! yes, 1997 installed originally. once broke and was replaced in 2001, but its bad too. . that's the problem driving a big tired, rubber bushing'ed car on the track. it can mask problems.... even big ones!


Now, you have to be quick and awake here. go back and read the post. I said you cant drop the nose if you are not decelerating. so, to be clear of what I said, if you are accelerating (as what 333 said), you cant drop the nose with LFB unless there is some geometry on the chassis that levers the chassis down up front. Kind of what happens when you pull an ebrake on a street car and the rear drops a bit due to the attachment points, leverage, and geometry of the rear suspension.

so, in opposite world, you might be right, but here on earth, if you are accelerating, weight is transferred to the rear of the car. its just basic physics

remember, I said LFB has near the same effect as stabing the brakes off throttle, but with a lot less rear brake bias.... actually based on my measurements and tests, LFB , while WOT can be complete neutralization of the rear brakes.
again, if you get a nose drop with LFB, you are decelerating.

danielyonker

this thread is like eating potato chips - you know its bad you, but you keep going back

winders

Another example of you not understanding basic physics......

1. What happens when you accelerate? Load is transferred to the rear so the nose rises.

2. What happens when you decelerate? Load is transferred to the front so the nose drops.

3. What happens when you stop accelerating but do not decelerate? The load equalizes bases on weight distribution and what happens? The nose drops.

You are a disaster......

mark kibort

you can troll or you can learn something or gain perspective here. Ill call you out on a lot of wives tales... prove they are wives tails and you (we) might gain a better understanding along the way.

Your post for example..... did that add something to the discussion or did it just make you feel good? if it made you feel good for some reason, then you are being a troll.... don't be a troll.

KaiB

Daniel, Daniel, Daniel....

It's all good.

You may now stop reading, hiring those expensive race coaches and spending evenings analyzing that confusing data.

Mark has all the knowledge you'll ever need. I, for one, have already altered the paradigm which has guided my driving since I began reading my Dad's books in the sixties. Why listen to anybody else....

mark kibort

YOU are calling me out on basic physics??
you are either accelerating or not accelerating. you cant "stop accelerating" without decelerating. its almost an oxymoron!
Let me break it down even further for you .
acceleration is change in velocity. any change in velocity is acceleration or deceleration.

so, for your #3 question. you are decelerating if you stop accelerating!
when you reach constant speed, or (0 acceleration/deceleration), the nose will drop and weight will transfer to the "no acceleration" proportions.

the original post said he was accelerating, LFB and the nose was dropping while he was accelerating. this is not possible, unless there is a geometry in the suspension that moves with front brake force, and that's not being discussed here.

so, please explain how it is I that is not understanding basic physics? it is you that just said the nose dropped going from acceleration to no acceleration. isn't that deceleration to get there?
and furthermore, again, the original poster said that his nose dropped during acceleration.

KaiB

Who the hell said his nose dropped during acceleration?

mark kibort

and you can listen to VR and Sunday who actually posted data of why they were losing 5mph down a straight,and blamed 20 degree temp change/ 3hp change, when the data was clearly pointing to driver error. There are some clowns here, but believe what you want to...... im just trying to point out the obvious and dispel wives tales with simple and clear physics.
but if you want to use an expensive coach to tell you, :don't worry, you were slower because of the 3hp loss due to temp, and don't worry about the other sections of track where you were identical.... oh, and that bobble of speed as you exited the turn, don't look at that too."....... man, you guys really have your heads in the sand...... just because you pay for advice, doesn't mean its worth anything........ but go ahead, keep on cutting those checks!

mark kibort

Actually Patrick did and then you did as well.
you have to keep up here if you want to play!


https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677767
actually here:
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677903
and then, quite funny.. YOU!!
https://rennlist.com/forums/racing-a...l#post11677948

now, in your post you make a jab at " you cant drop the nose under full throttle".... when in my post you were making fun of, I said that you cant drop the nose when accelerating while LFB......... see how this can get so ugly! you have to read and respond to what was said, not what it didn't say.

you see, I can understand what you meant and mis read. correct me if I am wrong, but you were referring to LFB while full throttle and the nose will dive. yes, I agree. again again again. all that left foot braking does, is remove any effective rear brake input, which might not be perfect for all turn approaches. that's all im saying. Its not "always" better as someone said.

danielyonker

**** - I guess I am a troll, again.

TXE36

WRT to the bolded above. Of course you can. Merely reducing the rate of acceleration is not deceleration.

At any point the car is accelerating more weight is on the rear. The amount of weight on the rear is proportional the rate of acceleration. More weight on the rear means nose up.

Yep. But of course, that is physics, physics. Perhaps the topic here is Coyote Physics.

-Mike

JustinL

Whoa! Review your Newtonian fizziks. Of course you can stop accelerating without decelerating. F=ma remove the force and a=0. Make the force act in the opposite direction you get negative values for a.